Human anti-viral meds for Mareks -- has anyone else tried this?

[rebrascora]

Thanks for the info but vets here are not allowed to prescribe human medication for animals unless it has been certified for animals and a human pharmacy here would not dispense an animal prescription and will not even sell you an over the counter medicine if you say it is for an animal. I made that mistake trying to get some golden eye ointment for my horses as the vet told me it might help their eye infection but was unable to prescribe it himself because it wasn't certified for animals. I explained to a pharmacist that the vet had recommended it and she said that she could not sell it to me for an animal and the vet should not have suggested it!

We certainly have aciclovir cream for topical application to cold sores here but I was unaware of any ingested medication. I'm very interested though as I regularly suffer from cold sores and will investigate further.

 

[Sonya9]

I think the problem with this disease is that it's very difficult to know whether any treatment is having an effect or whether it is just in remission. So far, I've seen all possible outcomes from no treatment. One was terminal and happened quite rapidly, one remained the same and one got better, but then went down with it again. I also had 2 cockerels show lameness around the same time and they both recovered completely.

I have lost 4 (counting the first one that arrived sick). NONE ever recovered, though the first was probably in remission as I got her when she was paralyzed and she seemed stable for a month before she started having mild seizures, she never really improved even when stable though.

There are different strains so if many of your birds have recovered maybe you have a milder strain or your birds have some natural resistance. And yes I think it is VERY common and folks just don't want to talk about it. The last two breeders I have gone to have both told me they believe they have Mareks in their flock, but that comes up in conversation after I said I believe I have it.

The EE is looking better than ever despite the slight limp, I have had her a few weeks and she never seemed to "thrive" but always seemed a bit puffed with low energy and a lowered tail. The last couple of days I have seen real change, she is now bright eyed and busy, her tail is up and she has a lot more energy.

Another similar off-label use of human antivirals is using Tamiflu for dogs infected with Parvo. My vet told me he has used it to dose all pups in a litter when one or two pups have come down with parvo, he said he has been amazed to see the other puppies did NOT come down with it whereas parvo most always infects and frequently kills entire litters. I did find it mentioned in an article as a new treatment that is being tried, though it doesn't make a huge difference in pups that are already very ill.

I am no doctor but it seems to me the similarities between chicken and human herpes viruses are probably greater than between the human influenza viruses and canine parvo virus.

 

[Sonya9]

Thanks for the info but vets here are not allowed to prescribe human medication for animals unless it has been certified for animals and a human pharmacy here would not dispense an animal prescription and will not even sell you an over the counter medicine if you say it is for an animal. I made that mistake trying to get some golden eye ointment for my horses as the vet told me it might help their eye infection but was unable to prescribe it himself because it wasn't certified for animals. I explained to a pharmacist that the vet had recommended it and she said that she could not sell it to me for an animal and the vet should not have suggested it!

We certainly have aciclovir cream for topical application to cold sores here but I was unaware of any ingested medication. I'm very interested though as I regularly suffer from cold sores and will investigate further.

Wow! That is terrible. Vets here frequently prescribe drugs for off-label use. It is especially bad since many drugs will never receive FDA approval for use on animals even if they work due to the costs of testing and approval. If there isn't a big enough market the drug manufacturers won't bother.

But of course since you suffer from cold stores you shouldn't have a problem getting it. It goes without saying there are definitely risks involved with trying it on birds, overdosing and causing liver/kidney damage is probably one of the biggest risks but for me anything is better than watching more of my birds die a horrible, and often slow death while I stand by helplessly.

 

[rebrascora]

Yes I hear what you are saying and stopped short of saying as much myself, but was thinking it. I hate to resort to being devious but it's not like stealing or anything. I suppose with prescriptions here, they are subsidised by the NHS, so it would not be ethical to use a medication obtained that way for animals, but if you can buy it over the counter without prescription then I could countenance it.
Have you had Marek's in your flock for long? I have my 2 pullets in sick bay located in the hen house (it's actually my homemade brooder) and yesterday I found an egg which was totally unexpected. I assumed that the Marek's would inhibit their development in that respect although both are of an age and have pretty red combs.
It comes the day after I has a breach of my sick bay security! I went to do a head count and shut the hen house in the evening and found the sick bay doors wide open and the feeder knocked over and my poorliest pullet on the hen house floor. I put her back in and closed the doors properly but it was dark, so I can't be sure that one of the other hens hadn't been in the sick bay nest and laid it although I'm 99% sure I would have seen it. It is the right colour for either of my Marek's hens to have laid it. I'm just curious if anyone else has Marek's symptom birds that still lay?

 

[Sonya9]

Was it a small egg? If your sick pullets have never laid before then it would likely be small.

I first got chickens last February and took in the first ill bird with suspected Marek's in around June (though I could have had it before and just didn't know).

And personally I would not feel bad about getting subsidized drugs if that was the only way to obtain them, a couple of bucks in herpes meds for a sick chicken is nothing compared to the massive amounts of program abuse by humans (and if the laws weren't so restrictive you could buy the drugs, but the gov isn't giving you that option). A lot of Brits are real animal lovers so you can be sure you aren't the only one doing whatever is necessary to obtain meds for their beloved pets.

 

[rebrascora]

Thanks for your reply. It was a small egg but many of my chickens are young pullets of similar breeding so the egg is very similar in size and colour to those I already get from them.

Timeframe wise it seems we are both on par with our flocks and Marek's. I got the first of my chickens just over a year ago and have been slowly adding to my flock. Mostly gifts from people and then my broodies raising chicks. My first Marek's symptoms turned up in late summer in young pullets that I had bred myself, so one of the chickens I have acquired must have been a carrier but I don't know which and it's too late now to worry about it. It's been a steep learning curve.

I'm afraid I have quite strong views on ethics and I couldn't stretch them to defrauding the NHS even to that tiny amount, and not even if it was for one of my beloved horses. I guess everyone has to draw their own line in the sand. If I can buy it over the counter without prescription, I would have no qualms. You can now buy the acyclovir like that, so perhaps Valtrex or an equivalent will make it's way onto the pharmacy shelves here soon. In the meantime I will follow your hen's progress with interest.

 

[Sonya9]

I'm afraid I have quite strong views on ethics and I couldn't stretch them to defrauding the NHS even to that tiny amount, and not even if it was for one of my beloved horses.

I doubt if the oral meds will be over the counter anytime soon. It is used for chickenpox in children, the risk of some fool overdosing their kid or themselves maybe too high (and I pray I am not one of those fools overdosing my chickens).

The paralyzed bird is showing leg movement and is getting noticeably stronger, she is starting to sit up and is changing positions in her carrier (she has been lame for 3 weeks). Like I said none of my others have ever shown improvement once the symptoms began so I am excited. While natural remission is a possibility the likelihood of both going into remission naturally at the same time seems very unlikely to me.

Here is a video of the little EE "test subject" as if this morning. I am getting very attached and she is getting very tame/friendly due to all of the feeding/handling.

 

[seminolewind]

Was it a small egg? If your sick pullets have never laid before then it would likely be small.

I first got chickens last February and took in the first ill bird with suspected Marek's in around June (though I could have had it before and just didn't know).

And personally I would not feel bad about getting subsidized drugs if that was the only way to obtain them, a couple of bucks in herpes meds for a sick chicken is nothing compared to the massive amounts of program abuse by humans (and if the laws weren't so restrictive you could buy the drugs, but the gov isn't giving you that option). A lot of Brits are real animal lovers so you can be sure you aren't the only one doing whatever is necessary to obtain meds for their beloved pets.

Good point. Sometimes it's interesting to read thru British forums to find out what they do, seems they have a lot of chicken (and rose) lovers.

 

[seminolewind]

Sometimes you can get some pharmaceuticals from pharmacies in Mexico or India. Many times it's cheaper. I'll do a search and see what I can find.

 

[Sonya9]

Sometimes you can get some pharmaceuticals from pharmacies in Mexico or India. Many times it's cheaper. I'll do a search and see what I can find.

Without a prescription it is usually much MORE expensive, as in 4+ times as expensive even for questionable generic drugs coming out of India. Here is one in the UK that offers chat and phone support, I would be surprised if they were REALLY based in the UK but it is possible. http://www.healthexpress.co.uk/valtrex.html