hurt foot or something else?

[mamahen1980]

I cant figure out how to load a video so pictures is all I have. Ok have Charlie separated and he is no happy camper he sounds so young now got vitamins in water. He will drink but still haven't seen him eat. And these past few days haven't felt anything in crop, how do I make him eat?

 

[mamahen1980]

eyes seem normal to me the pupils get larger and smaller slot, is that normal? Some of my outdoor chickens sneeze should I treat that? And is honking like a goose normal sounds in 12 or 13 week olds?

 

[Bens-Hens]

Symptoms for MD can vary in each case, which make it a bit harder to nail down. I found in two of our cases that the crops would seemed firm and full, as the birds tried to keep eating, but because they were always sitting it did not pass as it should. But if they have stopped eating, then naturally the crop will be empty or squishy.

MD also takes about 6 weeks from transmission to visible signs (which as another person said can appear very quickly) This is why it's not common in birds younger than 6 weeks. The visible signs come from lesions on organs inside the bird, generally other outward signs cannot be seen until the lesions get to a point where they are compressing organs and the sciatic nerves. This is why the paralysis varies as some birds are effected in different area's, but classic signs are limping, leg back leg forward and droopy wings. As it gets worse they can also develop neck function issues, but none of our's did.

One thing that was also a contributing symptom the vet taught us was the poo. Pepper had quite watery poo, with considerable amount of green/yellow. He said this was a sign often seen due to the early failure of (I think) the liver.



The downside to that symptom is there is such a wide range of 'normal' droppings that this is hardy reliable for diagnosis, just another thing to look out for.

Keep doing what you are doing, monitor and just in case it is infectious try to form a pattern of bird handling where you are not going from the sick bird to the rest of the flock, wash hands etc just to try avoid passing anything on. What ever it may be, you don't want it to spread.

 

[Haunted55]

I'm going to try and answer a bunch of what I read here....please bear with me.

If your chick isn't showing any respiratory distress, or other infection, then the answer is no, don't give antibiotics. Give the vitamins and probiotics.

Marek's doesn't usually 'hit' in a day. A vitamin deficiency can, actually it only seems to, because the prior symptoms went unnoticed, as birds hide problems well. Marek's...not so much. There are always warning signs and most can not be missed. You may not put them together until you have it staring you in the face, but they're there. Even the birds with the non-neurological forms of Marek's have symptoms. To someone new to chickens, it may be hard to figure out at first, but if you have a bird that is wasting away and eating 3Xs the amount of feed it should be...I'd be thinking Marek's.

As for seperating the bird now, you can, but how long were they together before this? There are two thoughts on this. One is that it's way too late, already exposed, why bother now? The second and one I agree with is yes, seperate because it's the constant "in your face exposure" that brings it on full blown. I will say if this bird has been with the others since the beginning, then removing it now isn't going to do a lot of good. They have been exposed, how strong their resistance is is anyone's guess. Since, from your original description, it doesn't sound like Marek's to me, the choice is yours.

Here's something a lot of people don't know....a bird can have Marek's and never show any type of symptoms...ever. They can be carriers of it and shed the virus in times of stress or not. It's pretty much a crap shoot. How do you know if you have one of these birds? You don't, sad to say. You can guess, if your others start showing symptoms and this bird or birds doesn't get 'sick', but other than that, you would never know. Another BYC member, Seminolewind, who also has marek's in their flock, described it perfectly....Seminole said Marek's is like fighting a ghost, I can't think of a more apt description.

"eyes seem normal to me the pupils get larger and smaller slot, is that normal? Some of my outdoor chickens sneeze should I treat that? And is honking like a goose normal sounds in 12 or 13 week olds?"

What do you mean by 'slot'? Are you saying that the pupil isn't round? Chickens who sneeze when they are outside only, are probably running into some kind of pollen that is bothering them the same as you or I. If they were doing it constantly, had watery eyes, gape mouth breathing or a really foul smell near their head as well, I'd say one of the diseases. The honking like a goose. More than one? Are they roos? If they aren't, then I would start medicating them and looking at any other symptoms they may show. Are they doing this during the day? What causes it? How does their breathing sound at night? Is it worse at night? Feel under the wings, does it feel like sweaty armpits? Have you ever wormed these birds? Alot of things could be going on here....need your eyes to show me what we're looking at.

Finally, if you give this little one the B Complex as I said earlier, you could see improvement within 3-4 days. You add in the probiotic and it could be as early as 2. It isn't going to cure the bird this quickly. Sorry, not going to happen, but you should still see something. If you are worried about the little one not eating you can try this...his regular feed, an egg, scrambled and chopped fine or raw, 1/2 tsp of honey and warm water enough to make a sloppy feed. Try this and if he still won't eat, add more water and you can dip your finger into it and drip it onto his beak and allow him to take it in. If he's drinking, I think if you put the Bs into the water, he will want to eat pretty darned quickly. Remember though, the drinking is so much more important than the eating right now. I will leave you with this...Even if this does turn out to be marek's in the end, there is life after Marek's for both you and your birds. No it's not the dream you may have had, but you can still have a flock of chickens that lay eggs and do all the normal chicken things. Not all of them will die, not all of them will have to be culled. I have birds that are survivors and are over a year old. Their babies, that I hatched have also had babies. Out of these two groups that I call Control Group #1 and Control Group #2, I have lost 2 birds from the first group. One was definately Marek's, neurological affecting the legs, and the second, I can't say for sure. It was a Show Girl Silkie and it was just found dead one morning. No other symptoms at all. To be honest, I think it was pecked through the wire between cages by another bird. Anyways...none of these birds were vaccinated for Marek's and are doing extremely well. They are housed in the same building as the original survivors so get the 'in your face' everyday. These birds are symptom free. Some are even bigger than their parents.

My point, if it does turn out to be Marek's, which I sincerely do not believe, you can do nothing except vitamins and TLC or you can cull. I would want a necropsy report before I did that though. Most probably, it is vitamins.

 

[Bens-Hens]

Very well written, and I agree very much with your comments.

The third paragraph talking about the early signs are there as you say, some visible in the weeks before paralysis symptoms. My reference of it 'hitting in a day' is due to the early signs being missed or confused for other possible illness. We had no idea about Marek's, signs or symptoms until we had our second bird diagnosed. It was not until then that we researched it.

Wasting, droppings and most other early signs are simply missed, or Marek's is not considered as there are so many other possible causes.

If it was me I would still keep the bird separate, administer what ever supplements you choose. If for nothing else, at least the others birds will not bully or hinder it's recovery.

 

[mamahen1980]

The other two chicks it was in with were making it hard for Charlie to get any food or water, they are bullys so now Charlie doesn't have to fight his way and I saw him drinking last night and this morning barely picking at chick food will try the eggs thanks I forgot I had read that on this forum somewhere.
the birds outside only seem to have honking or labored sounding in evenings when I feed them dinner and i believe its both roos and hens. Speedy my oldest about 11 or 12 weeks im sure is hen does it and sneezing on me so I know she has snot but no fowl smell. Im off next week and plan on watching more closely to their behavior.
Charlie is putting more weight on one leg very unbalanced but will not on the one thats forward, he doesn't even tuck it under him when he sits.

 

[mamahen1980]

Oh and his poop looks nothing like that since he is alone I know he has normal think poop with white speck just like it should be so thats awesome news. Ya'll have been awesome thanks so much, now I get to play waiting game and hope he improves.

 

[Haunted55]

Very well written, and I agree very much with your comments.

The third paragraph talking about the early signs are there as you say, some visible in the weeks before paralysis symptoms. My reference of it 'hitting in a day' is due to the early signs being missed or confused for other possible illness. We had no idea about Marek's, signs or symptoms until we had our second bird diagnosed. It was not until then that we researched it.

Wasting, droppings and most other early signs are simply missed, or Marek's is not considered as there are so many other possible causes.

If it was me I would still keep the bird separate, administer what ever supplements you choose. If for nothing else, at least the others birds will not bully or hinder it's recovery.

You are absolutely right about the early signs and if I seemed to make anyone uncomfortable with my wording, I'm sorry, not meant that way. When it first showed up here last year, I had no clue at first. Then I started asking and reading as the symptoms were all over the place. The only common disease I found that covered them all was Marek's. To make matters worse, no Vet in my area who does poultry, the closest one is over 100 miles away and the first necropsy didn't show this disease at all, in fact they had no idea what the bird had died from. The second necropsy, showed the disease and the Dr. who did the necropsy was kind enough to call me and explain why it had been missed in the first bird. The first had been given all 3 vaccines for Marek's at the hatchery. This plays havoc with their testing during a necropsy. The second necropsy was done on a bird that was only vaccinated with the Turkey Marek's vaccine, so the results were easier for them to find.

My comment on not separating the bird....if the bird is able to react in the flock normally, they have always been together, then it would be up to the owner to decide how they want to handle it. If the bird is unable to get around, having difficulty getting to feed or water then of course you would remove the bird from possible harm. You would do this at anytime, with any bird, no matter what the symptoms. Sorry, lol, sometimes my head goes faster than my fingers can keep up with. Thank-you for pointing this out. Seriously! It's a very important consideration.

 

[Bens-Hens]

That's some good news.

Keep an eye on it, the poop tells a lot when a bird is not 100%

Hope some vitamins and intensive care bring him back to good health quick smart.

 

[Mickey Lou 04]

My birds honked when they were younger I don't have an issue now.