Hybrid coop: tractor with deep Deep litter,

[feathermaid]

I've read through your posts and not sure I'm understanding fully.

So I was under the impression a 4'x8' foot coop with multiple roosting tiers (like three) and a ranging space of about 20' x 20' would be enough.
So does that mean two coops on either side of the run?

Are you wanting to build a movable roosting house which you move to different "paddock" ranging areas as mentioned at the end of the following article?
https://richsoil.com/raising-chickens.jsp (this link was also provided in a Justin Rhodes article)
A 4x8 coop could comfortably sleep 16 birds: 2 8' roost bars placed at 12" intervals from the wall and each other, as long as birds weren't kept inside longer than nighttime hours. Each bird will need about 12" linear space, maybe less if you feel ok about crowding them. Your broilers probably won't roost at all, unless you're going with all dual-purpose breeds... or both since you mention 2 coops?
What are you using to build the 20x20 ranging space? Will that be just as secure as the tractor you plan to build?

I've read a problem with deep litter is that it eats up wood over time. Its an issue that shows up 5ish years in

Are you saying you want to use deep litter so you don't have to clean the coop for 5 years or longer? You could always weatherproof that wood. I've also heard that deep litter isn't really going to build up any significant heat for birds if adequate ventilation is available, it's going to escape. Chickens are extremely cold hardy and many folks in Canada don't find a need to supplement heat or even insulate. Any possible accumulated warmth from deep litter shouldn't even be a concern for your birds where you live.

no one around here has been able to keep a flock past a season with land like mine,

What does that mean?
What happens to other flocks?

Alright you crazy chicken people that's the question. What have you tried and how has it worked?

I use a semi-deep litter method. Actually, I just use pine shavings on the floor of my coop and keep adding fresh throughout the year, then replace them in the spring. Old litter goes in my compost bin to spend the following year turning into lovely rich soil for my garden beds. I use a poop tray filled with a shallow layer of Sweet PDZ under the roosts to catch most of the droppings and I scoop daily. Because of the poop tray, the shavings remain practically clean. I also have a small covered run with more shavings and a larger fenced yard exposed to the weather filled with a deep layer of wood chips. I have a gutter system that redirects water away from the covered areas and so far I've never had issues with mud or flooding, even through our extremely rainy winters.

 

[Katonk]

Man thanks for all the questions I really appreciate the digging Soo we can really start to figure this out.
Yes I want to move them around in different paddocks.
I would love to use electrified poultry netting but I'm probably going to have to build a movable enclosure/run (I can't really move a frame that's 20x20 so I'll have to break it up into something I can piece together. Sounds complicated but with a couple of latches it really isn't.)
5ish years till breakdown is seen.
Oh heck no I don't want to wait that long to clean out my coop! I've read I can expect a correctly done deep litter coop in perfect conditions will need a yearly clean out, but I can expect something more like every 4 to 8 months. When I was talking about the wood it was in the context of how high a moisture barrier should be on the inside. Wood directly in contact with litter will eventually break down, but it's going to take time. The awesome organisms that are breaking down the gross stuff in the litter accelerate the natural decomposition of the wood. It's not too big a deal, but I'd hate for something to break into the coop through a weakness I could of prevented from the get go. Wood on the outside, plastic or metal on the inside. I'm a little worried about rust and the health of my birds so plastic sounds good as long as it's tough enough and can stand up to swings in temperature. I'd hate for my birds to eat any plastic crud. I mean they're probably going to anyways God knows some of the crazy stuff that gets blow over here lol... But since I'm building from the ground up why not address a possible issue in the far future?
I only want one coop but I don't want to harm my girls with overcrowding, and will use two coops thus creating two separate flocks if I have to to ensure their good welfare.
Man I'm glad to get some reassurance on their comfort in the winter.
I can't afford to heat a coop.

K so now onto neighbors experiences.
Hawks and owls take the bulk as they free range. Some other predators will hang next to a fenced run where a bottleneck was created and pull them through the fence as they're forced close, but will only get the heads. Local loose dogs will work the entire fence line and dig out as much as they can spread out over a long period of time. If you don't catch it you'll wake up to an empty torn up coop but a perfect fence. Daily walk arounds to fill in holes are needed.
Another issue is the cat.
My neighbor had to repair a pretty sizable brace of wood on his permanent coop with attached run. The local bobcat was jumping up and using her weight to break in through the roof of the far side of the run.
Babies were all taken out by snakes in every story I heard from neighbors.
We have a lot of them and some are no fun...
And then there's the coyotes.
Sooooo many coyotes.
Those that failed had some things in common: no property fencing, large spaces of rural land nearby, undeveloped land near the home, lack of guarding animals.
The chickens lasted the longest when there was no nearby open faced water source.
Loss was experienced with stationary coops as well as tractor coops.
Those closer to town that were successful in keeping a flock had a few things in common too. Most hit like three or four on this list in any combination.
Gutters. Established drainage. Hoop greenhouses/enclosures with opaque covering where they allow chickens access to forage space. Fencing around their entire property, and then more fencing closer to the home to designate different areas for different uses. Lots of established neighbors. Barns or large steel workshops they can wheel a tractor coop into for the night. Auto sensor lights outside. Livestock dogs, donkeys, or geese (or a combination) to guard the flock.
These also had success with both stationary and mobile coops.

So it comes down to how developed the land is and how well my property compliments the stalking of a predator.
I have far more in common with my neighbors who have lost flocks than I do with those further away who have had success.
Something to note: one townie did experience complete flock loss after seasonal high winds. Coop was flipped but the girls stayed close. Unfortunately the coyotes were closer.

Something else that's important to know about my land. It was an open cleared field. No wind breaks, no drainage.
If you watch my land during the rainy season you'll realize my land is the funnel on the field where all the run off water is directed through to another neighbors pond below me. Three seasons most of my land is parched and cracked. As soon as there's water there's crawdads everywhere, and some parts are literally under standing water.

 

[Katonk]

Oh hey I'd like to note Justin Rhodes repackaged a lot from permies.com
He even named his website abundant permaculture, mirroring a lot of their layout and attempting to redirect their traffic in my opinion. He's a chicken guy selling his chicken plans. He's not a permie. I'm not either for that matter but I think that's an important point to make. I like a fulcrum design and he had a parts list. I by no means see his line of products as the very best or most correct way to do things no matter how many you tube videos he puts out.
This might upset some folks.
I'm also a granny panty kinda girl without the age and think thongs are just glorified butt flosses.
Aaand strawberry jam is WAY better than grape.
Also personal opinions I don't feel like defending because they're never going to change. I'm sure he's a wonderful person, but he's running a business and he's a salesman.
Just putting that out there.
Have a great night everyone

 

[CRChicken]

I hear you about Rhodes and see what you see. Apple butter is my hands down favorite but not a jam, I guess. For jamlike things, I adore citrus marmalade. I am wicked fussy about the strawberry jam but nothing is better than one done "just so", except perhaps a well balanced lemon, grapefruit and orange marmy.

What did you end up with for a coop, Katonk? We're starting up with 13 birds and also heading into winter in rural northern vermont.

Floor - I like the idea of deep bedding and want the ladies mobile. I like Justin Rhodes coop - mobile with large wheels, detailed plans, room for my ladies and a few more - but I worry about the winter. I plan to have them close to the house for my convenience enclosed with premier1 fencing. Deep bedding sounds good for winter even if I leave the floor in hardware cloth for the warmish parts of our year . . . maybe a removable winter floor panels?

The ladies are just 3 weeks old and we have them in our first "free plan coop build" which will soon be too small for them. I learned a lot about free plans and how much experience and knack I have still to develop by watching hubby get the thing made, then seeing how it doesn't quite suit and working from there. Gosh I love these little creatures! And I love what I imagine they will do for my land . . .

Would you share a picture or description of where you are headed or the coop you ended up with? I am putting all my links below, because I am so new to these crazy chicken details that every iteration of the details helps center me.

1. We quickly built Ana White's version of the prism shaped mobile coop. It's HEAVY!!! making some changes - 1/2 inch hardware cloth instead of poultry netting, splitting the doors, completely enclosing the upstairs with plywood, adding an interior door to the upstairs, adding a ramp and fashioning some tarps for wind protection on the lower run. I cannot figure out what she had planned for nest boxes or roosts but the plans don't say. We're using it for the 13 babies and they love it for now. Soon they will outgrow it.
   
   
2. Other coops I like - Eliot Coleman's Chicksaw (Four Season Farm in ME), Justin Rhodes Chicksaw Version 2 (temporary winter floor and maybe rounded or slanted roof so I don't have to shovel it?), Runamok Acres (ME) Hoop Coop. I like Duncan Sickler's prism shaped one with the winter deep bedding box but it is too small for us. I think he used the Catawba plans. His wheel lift system makes me both starry and cross eyed not to mention the automatic waterer! Perhaps next year or next decade after I pick up some skills and judgment about the girls, the builds, the stuff, the land and the everything. I would say that I would build Eliot Coleman's if I could figure it out but am torn between Rhodes Chicksaw and the Runamok Hoop Coop. Might be more realistic to get that hoop coop in as it is allready chilly at night and I am still staring at hardware and wondering "what is this? and how will I ever?"

 

[aart]

Great first post @CRChicken.
Not a fan of A-frame(prism) coops, space is tight up top,
and weather proofing/ventilation is a catch-22.

Might be more realistic to get that hoop coop in as it is allready chilly at night and I am still staring at hardware and wondering "what is this? and how will I ever?"

Yes, the first winter with chickens can be a bear.... then spend the winter planning out the mobile aspects.

Oh, and....Welcome to BYC! @CRChicken
Where in this world are you located?
Climate, and time of year, is almost always a factor.
Please add your general geographical location to your profile.
It's easy to do, (laptop version shown), then it's always there!

 

[CRChicken]

Thank you! I put in my location - Northeast Kingdom of Vermont - up by the border with Canada in the eastern quadrant of the state. We had a doozy of a cold winter last year. My neighbors don't heat their coops but none are using chicksaws and it seems like everyone has a floor. I like that RunAmok's design was made for Maine and can be dual purpose as I continue to figure stuff out around the place.

I see what you mean about the weather proofing ventilation challenge, musing over the awkwardness is illuminating. We put a door on the top to keep them safe. And the little sweeties make their sleeping "carpet" just below the door which we have set up to open inwards! lol I have the other doors but when I use them, they try to fly out. We are training our dog to protect them so the circus of feathers and canine flurry and newbie ineptitude is a hoot.