pterry97

Songster
Apr 5, 2021
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Maybe try a male JAPAN SE and female button but artificial insemination
If I were more serious about the breeding I'd probably be trying more options like this. But I'm not. I've mentioned it's just a casual experiment, and I'm only doing it because my button roo is already breeding the coturnix hens by himself naturally.
 

DK newbie

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This is a really interesting experiment. Doesn't serve any obvious purpose, but who knows, we might be able to learn something useful. At least it's impressive that the little guy learned how to mate with the cots :D
 

pterry97

Songster
Apr 5, 2021
118
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This is a really interesting experiment. Doesn't serve any obvious purpose, but who knows, we might be able to learn something useful. At least it's impressive that the little guy learned how to mate with the cots :D
Seriously I know I was so surprised when I caught him in the act! About a month into having him he started attempting to breed them, but it was a futile effort. They'd squat for him and he'd clamber on their backs and grab at their neck... but he sort of sat between their shoulders like a back pack. It was honestly adorable and hilarious. The hens didn't seem to care whatsoever so I left them to it. Only to find about 2 months later he figured out if he grabs them in the middle of their back he can touch cloaca's, and I thought, "wow, the mad lad did it. That takes some determination." and THEN it was a case of "huh do king coturnix hybrids exist?" And, well, here we are.
 

007Sean

Face it, Embrace it, Ace it, Replace it
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Oct 25, 2015
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Update time, and boy is there some news.

So! That wiggly egg I was worried about in the last update had indeed died as suspected. It came out super weird, in a little bubble of blood. I’ve never seen embryos in such a pocket before, so I’m wondering if they potentially burst a vein and bled to death inside the egg. Still a tiny embryo.

View attachment 2806253


View attachment 2806252

Then another potential egg red ringed tonight, and upon opening I found the teensiest little embryo I’ve ever seen. Like pinhead sized.

View attachment 2806256 View attachment 2806257


I’m now down to 2 fertiles again. BUT I have something exciting to show. They’re both wigglers which is always nice to see (but so was the first one on this post so I won’t get my hopes too high) but here’s my furthest developed embryo yet. Again there’s no promises or hopes up on fully surviving the long run, but it’s still exciting to see.
Although they are both in the Family Phasianidae, they are different Genus and Species. Thus, the genus and species being too different to produce offspring. I think what your seeing is a 'lethal gene' has dominance over other genes. Might be being caused by an inversion of the chromosome. A part breaks off is reattached 'upside down'. That's why they are only developing so far, then the cells stop dividing.

A permanent hybrid only occurs when only the heterozygous genotype occurs because all homozygous combinations are lethal.

Interesting experiment none the less. :thumbsup
 
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pterry97

Songster
Apr 5, 2021
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Alright guys, final update time. I’m going to call it quits here, since my previous worry about hatching came true.

We finally got a fully developed baby, missing all but reabsorbing the yolk. I had worried they’d be too small to hatch and this was true. Today is day 21 of them in incubation, they were laying at the top of the egg sideways, since there was so much space they weren’t cramped enough to fit their head under their wing to reach pipping position.

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I believe that if I continued with incubating them that the results would be the same. It’s a genuine miracle we got a fully formed chick to begin with, so side ring every other try only reached jelly bean stage. I’m more than happy to let someone else try the experiment, maybe switch some factors up. For example, the chick is the size of a pin, so they’re likely to be closer to a button quail chick, so perhaps using a button hen would be better for hatching results (if you know how to artificially inseminate anyways).

Thanks everyone who followed the experiment up until now, it certwinly
 

DK newbie

Crowing
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Wow, the beak and legs are huge, compared to the body size. Too bad it didn't live, it would have been interesting.
 

007Sean

Face it, Embrace it, Ace it, Replace it
Premium Feather Member
6 Years
Oct 25, 2015
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Alright guys, final update time. I’m going to call it quits here, since my previous worry about hatching came true.

We finally got a fully developed baby, missing all but reabsorbing the yolk. I had worried they’d be too small to hatch and this was true. Today is day 21 of them in incubation, they were laying at the top of the egg sideways, since there was so much space they weren’t cramped enough to fit their head under their wing to reach pipping position.

View attachment 2814407
View attachment 2814408
View attachment 2814409
View attachment 2814410

I believe that if I continued with incubating them that the results would be the same. It’s a genuine miracle we got a fully formed chick to begin with, so side ring every other try only reached jelly bean stage. I’m more than happy to let someone else try the experiment, maybe switch some factors up. For example, the chick is the size of a pin, so they’re likely to be closer to a button quail chick, so perhaps using a button hen would be better for hatching results (if you know how to artificially inseminate anyways).

Thanks everyone who followed the experiment up until now, it certwinly
Did you open the egg or did it hatch on it's own? Looks like it needed another 3 to 4 days before it would have/should have hatched.
 

pterry97

Songster
Apr 5, 2021
118
132
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Did you open the egg or did it hatch on it's own? Looks like it needed another 3 to 4 days before it would have/should have hatched.
We were on day 21 and I only opened it after no longer seeing any signs of movement. They were already dead when I opened it up, stiff as a cadaver. Was just a shame to see it so close and yet so far.
 

007Sean

Face it, Embrace it, Ace it, Replace it
Premium Feather Member
6 Years
Oct 25, 2015
34,332
208,679
1,652
South Central Texas
Alright guys, final update time. I’m going to call it quits here, since my previous worry about hatching came true.

We finally got a fully developed baby, missing all but reabsorbing the yolk. I had worried they’d be too small to hatch and this was true. Today is day 21 of them in incubation, they were laying at the top of the egg sideways, since there was so much space they weren’t cramped enough to fit their head under their wing to reach pipping position.

View attachment 2814407
View attachment 2814408
View attachment 2814409
View attachment 2814410

I believe that if I continued with incubating them that the results would be the same. It’s a genuine miracle we got a fully formed chick to begin with, so side ring every other try only reached jelly bean stage. I’m more than happy to let someone else try the experiment, maybe switch some factors up. For example, the chick is the size of a pin, so they’re likely to be closer to a button quail chick, so perhaps using a button hen would be better for hatching results (if you know how to artificially inseminate anyways).

Thanks everyone who followed the experiment up until now, it certwinly
As I stated before, homozygous gametes is a lethal combination, heterozgous will produce a hybrid specimen.
With homozygous embryos, some may develop a few cells then die, some may develop into a embryo, then die. Some may make it to the hatching phase then die and some will actually hatch but die soon after hatching. It's just a reality of nature....it's one reason you don't see this type of hybrid in the wild.
 

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