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- #61
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Do White Cochins
Do White Cochins
I An Idea For All of You, do you agree (concerns My Genetics Opinion)
- Thread starter usschicago1
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- #62
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Someday i would love your Delawares
Yes they are different, and if you can do both than there's nothing wrong with that, but if you could only choose one (in my opinion, but since i have to say it every-time so that im not arrogant, which my opinion is no better than anyone else's including sonaran silkies
) I think it would be better to choose an established breed 
Yes they are different, and if you can do both than there's nothing wrong with that, but if you could only choose one (in my opinion, but since i have to say it every-time so that im not arrogant, which my opinion is no better than anyone else's including sonaran silkies
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- #63
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Well Im Certainly not one,Im still fuzzy on genetic, but if you know What your crossing for, and how to get there, well than thats all you can really ask for
Not aimless crossing
Well Im Certainly not one,Im still fuzzy on genetic, but if you know What your crossing for, and how to get there, well than thats all you can really ask for
Quote:
I guess my biggest problem with your suggestion is that you are assigning value simply based on historical choice. Why are the choices made by someone from 100 or 300 years ago in defining a breed more vaild than the choices someone makes today? I have absolutely no problem with you or anyone else saying, "gee, I am concerned about keeping the old breeds that are dying out alive, and I choose to work to preserve them," or your encouragement for others to help preserve those breeds. I do object when you express the opinion that your choice (preserving older breeds) is more valid or worthwhile than someone else's choice to work on a new breed or variety. It strikes me as quite arrogant to consider one's own opinions more worthwhile than someone who thinks differently.
And quite frankly it actively discourages me from having any interest in preserving a breed that I might consider if your presentation were different. Yes, that is petty. But I am human.
arrogant-making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming; insolently proud
If thats one thing this whole thread I HAVEN't Been Arrogant. I Respect your opinion (though not your attitude) as much as everyone elses.
How is my highlighted statement different than the portion of your definition that I highlit? The arrogance may not be your attitude, but your presumption that your preference is more important.
I guess my biggest problem with your suggestion is that you are assigning value simply based on historical choice. Why are the choices made by someone from 100 or 300 years ago in defining a breed more vaild than the choices someone makes today? I have absolutely no problem with you or anyone else saying, "gee, I am concerned about keeping the old breeds that are dying out alive, and I choose to work to preserve them," or your encouragement for others to help preserve those breeds. I do object when you express the opinion that your choice (preserving older breeds) is more valid or worthwhile than someone else's choice to work on a new breed or variety. It strikes me as quite arrogant to consider one's own opinions more worthwhile than someone who thinks differently.
And quite frankly it actively discourages me from having any interest in preserving a breed that I might consider if your presentation were different. Yes, that is petty. But I am human.
arrogant-making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming; insolently proud
If thats one thing this whole thread I HAVEN't Been Arrogant. I Respect your opinion (though not your attitude) as much as everyone elses.
How is my highlighted statement different than the portion of your definition that I highlit? The arrogance may not be your attitude, but your presumption that your preference is more important.
I know you work with silkie varities, and thats great because if no-one did then we wouldn't have silkies. You were really not one of the people I was talking about. Really Im Saying to People WORK WITH A BREED !!!
There is really not that much difference in working on varieties versus breeds. In either case you are messing with the standard. Silkies have been known to western civilization for nearly 650 years (and presumably far longer to eastern civilization); they are one of the more popular fancy breeds; I don't think they are going away even if many of us silkie breeders lost interest.
There is really not that much difference in working on varieties versus breeds. In either case you are messing with the standard. Silkies have been known to western civilization for nearly 650 years (and presumably far longer to eastern civilization); they are one of the more popular fancy breeds; I don't think they are going away even if many of us silkie breeders lost interest.
And I prefer a heritage breed if someone could choose. I'm not saying thats better, but morally speaking its better for the breed.
Once again, you are not simply saying "I choose," but rather "I think that you should choose a heritage breed." That it is more moral to work on certain breeds than on others. My point is that unless a breeder is literally breeding for things detrimental to the quality of health or life of the birds, morality is not involved at all. I am as content for you to work with a heritage breed as I am for someone else to work on sizzles or showgirls or aloha chickens or olive eggers.
Once again, you are not simply saying "I choose," but rather "I think that you should choose a heritage breed." That it is more moral to work on certain breeds than on others. My point is that unless a breeder is literally breeding for things detrimental to the quality of health or life of the birds, morality is not involved at all. I am as content for you to work with a heritage breed as I am for someone else to work on sizzles or showgirls or aloha chickens or olive eggers.
Quote:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, are you serious?
I do appreciate your concerns, but HAHAHAHA!
Lisa
What she said.. exactly.
x3
There are very few folks on here formally taught in a higher educational setting- at least few taught to play with the genes. I did a lot of that in college, but we were not playing with chicken genes. That is coming with time, experience, and lots of research. Lots of time spent learning the different ways to denote each gene, because that's not even consistent depending upon where you are having discussions with folks.
Experience gives us differing 'qualifications' but that experience must be gradually gained, which means we start off *inexperienced.*
It's important to note that judgment plays a huge role in both gene games and hatching, and one can't have good judgment until one has had something on which to base it.
I respect the opinion of the OP, but perhaps understanding where we come from (those of us who disagree) will help to understand our point of view, and to understand why people take chances when inexperienced.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, are you serious?
I do appreciate your concerns, but HAHAHAHA!
Lisa
What she said.. exactly.
x3
There are very few folks on here formally taught in a higher educational setting- at least few taught to play with the genes. I did a lot of that in college, but we were not playing with chicken genes. That is coming with time, experience, and lots of research. Lots of time spent learning the different ways to denote each gene, because that's not even consistent depending upon where you are having discussions with folks.
Experience gives us differing 'qualifications' but that experience must be gradually gained, which means we start off *inexperienced.*
It's important to note that judgment plays a huge role in both gene games and hatching, and one can't have good judgment until one has had something on which to base it.
I respect the opinion of the OP, but perhaps understanding where we come from (those of us who disagree) will help to understand our point of view, and to understand why people take chances when inexperienced.
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Quote:
Who is trying to breed them and where are you in the 'project'?
Lisa
I thought that was YOUR project.
It's mine.
Who is trying to breed them and where are you in the 'project'?
Lisa
I thought that was YOUR project.
It's mine.
Okay, I know people have already mentioned pretty much everything I've written here - but I'll just weigh in anyways.
Quote:
If we're talking artificial incubation, a chick that's struggling to get out of the shell usually doesn't have anything to do with genetics - it's more likely because of improper incubation conditions. I've helped dozens of chicks and ducklings out of the shell this year because the humidity's been crazy here. ALL of them are completely healthy, gorgeous birds except for one chick that I helped that turned out to have an unhealed navel and some intestines protruding out (which I did try to push in to see if it'd heal over, but I ruptured the delicate intestinal tissue trying to get it back though the navel opening). But I'm still glad I helped that one out - I'd rather know there was something physically wrong with it than let it die in the shell, wondering what happened. I helped one duckling out this year that was so shrink-wrapped from low humidity that she couldn't even externally pip herself - I had to pip through the shell for her, do all the zipping, and all I left for her to do was kick herself free of the shell. She's vibrant and healthy, and part of a color project I'm working on now - which I'll address in a minute.
Like I said - every other bird I've helped out is completely normal and healthy, and many of them are being added to my breeding program. Did you know that most Call duck breeders help every single duckling out of the shell? The good SQ ones have very short bills and often have a tough time pipping - so a lot of the show-winning Calls are birds that were helped out of the shell. I don't think you should be taking an anti-helping stand based on one chick you helped that did happen to have a genetic flaw - which, by the way, would tend to suggest a genetic weakness in your breeder flock.
Quote:
If we're talking artificial incubation, a chick that's struggling to get out of the shell usually doesn't have anything to do with genetics - it's more likely because of improper incubation conditions. I've helped dozens of chicks and ducklings out of the shell this year because the humidity's been crazy here. ALL of them are completely healthy, gorgeous birds except for one chick that I helped that turned out to have an unhealed navel and some intestines protruding out (which I did try to push in to see if it'd heal over, but I ruptured the delicate intestinal tissue trying to get it back though the navel opening). But I'm still glad I helped that one out - I'd rather know there was something physically wrong with it than let it die in the shell, wondering what happened. I helped one duckling out this year that was so shrink-wrapped from low humidity that she couldn't even externally pip herself - I had to pip through the shell for her, do all the zipping, and all I left for her to do was kick herself free of the shell. She's vibrant and healthy, and part of a color project I'm working on now - which I'll address in a minute.
Like I said - every other bird I've helped out is completely normal and healthy, and many of them are being added to my breeding program. Did you know that most Call duck breeders help every single duckling out of the shell? The good SQ ones have very short bills and often have a tough time pipping - so a lot of the show-winning Calls are birds that were helped out of the shell. I don't think you should be taking an anti-helping stand based on one chick you helped that did happen to have a genetic flaw - which, by the way, would tend to suggest a genetic weakness in your breeder flock.
[Another Idea- Alot of people are doing "projects" For Fun. I really think this should be left for the professionals, like hinkjc and the genetic guros on this section. I think it would be better to save an endangered breed ( like the java, le fleche, ect) as you can learn as you go with these. I think with the millie fluer cochin project, they are going great, but now with so many people just breeding them and not knowing what to look for (wich is why i dont have them i dont know about that color pattern) the variety is going steps back. When they were low profile, i think they made alot more progress.
How do you suppose someone becomes an "expert" or a "genetic guru"? By experimenting, by playing with colors - by doing projects. You're not going to learn much about exciting genes by simply working with an old, established, predictable heritage breed!
If people want to embark on a project, why not? I'm working on one, and I'm no expert. It's how people learn and become more passionate about their hobby - it's how many breeds have come about throughout history, and it's how lots of them have survived. All the established, heritage breeds that you seem to be pushing so hard started out as someone's project!
How do you suppose someone becomes an "expert" or a "genetic guru"? By experimenting, by playing with colors - by doing projects. You're not going to learn much about exciting genes by simply working with an old, established, predictable heritage breed!
If people want to embark on a project, why not? I'm working on one, and I'm no expert. It's how people learn and become more passionate about their hobby - it's how many breeds have come about throughout history, and it's how lots of them have survived. All the established, heritage breeds that you seem to be pushing so hard started out as someone's project!
- Thread starter
- #68
Thanks Everyone For your posts, i think more or less people do disagree with me
But thats okay, We can agree to disagree
- Thread starter
- #69
Quote:
I thought that was YOUR project.
It's mine.
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k304/racuda00/project.jpg
Beautiful
I thought that was YOUR project.
It's mine.
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k304/racuda00/project.jpg
Beautiful
- Thread starter
- #70
Quote:
arrogant-making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming; insolently proud
If thats one thing this whole thread I HAVEN't Been Arrogant. I Respect your opinion (though not your attitude) as much as everyone elses.
How is my highlighted statement different than the portion of your definition that I highlit? The arrogance may not be your attitude, but your presumption that your preference is more important.
arrogant-making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming; insolently proud
If thats one thing this whole thread I HAVEN't Been Arrogant. I Respect your opinion (though not your attitude) as much as everyone elses.
How is my highlighted statement different than the portion of your definition that I highlit? The arrogance may not be your attitude, but your presumption that your preference is more important.
I know you work with silkie varities, and thats great because if no-one did then we wouldn't have silkies. You were really not one of the people I was talking about. Really Im Saying to People WORK WITH A BREED !!!
There is really not that much difference in working on varieties versus breeds. In either case you are messing with the standard. Silkies have been known to western civilization for nearly 650 years (and presumably far longer to eastern civilization); they are one of the more popular fancy breeds; I don't think they are going away even if many of us silkie breeders lost interest.
I apologize Maybe im not coming off in writing as I sound in my head but, I do not think my opinion is more valid than anyone else's .
There is really not that much difference in working on varieties versus breeds. In either case you are messing with the standard. Silkies have been known to western civilization for nearly 650 years (and presumably far longer to eastern civilization); they are one of the more popular fancy breeds; I don't think they are going away even if many of us silkie breeders lost interest.
And I prefer a heritage breed if someone could choose. I'm not saying thats better, but morally speaking its better for the breed.
Once again, you are not simply saying "I choose," but rather "I think that you should choose a heritage breed." That it is more moral to work on certain breeds than on others. My point is that unless a breeder is literally breeding for things detrimental to the quality of health or life of the birds, morality is not involved at all. I am as content for you to work with a heritage breed as I am for someone else to work on sizzles or showgirls or aloha chickens or olive eggers.
Once again, you are not simply saying "I choose," but rather "I think that you should choose a heritage breed." That it is more moral to work on certain breeds than on others. My point is that unless a breeder is literally breeding for things detrimental to the quality of health or life of the birds, morality is not involved at all. I am as content for you to work with a heritage breed as I am for someone else to work on sizzles or showgirls or aloha chickens or olive eggers.
I apologize Maybe im not coming off in writing as I sound in my head but, I do not think my opinion is more valid than anyone else's .
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