I just can't stand it!!

rancher hicks

Free Ranging
14 Years
Feb 28, 2009
17,689
921
536
Syracuse, NY
What are we supposed to say when someone comes on and posts that a predator be it dog, fox, weasel or coon got in and killed their birds AGAIN?? What are we supposed to say?

It's happened again on another threat and I'm at a loss as to what to say. If I say what I think people get all "you're being judgmental". You bet your sweet bippy I am! I'm sick and tired of folks who expect me to go "aawww that's to bad" when they've failed to take proper precaution to protect their poor chickens.

This is what Alan Holtman of the Practical Poultry magazine has to say.

"THE FUNDAMENTAL CONCEPT THAT ALL CHICKEN KEEPERS MUST REMEMBER IS THAT YOU ARE TOTALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE WELFARE OF YOUR BIRDS, ALL DAY, EVERYDAY, WHATEVER THE WEATHER"

From where I sit that includes predators too.

Oh and these are not new chicken owners these are people who have been on this forum for some time.

I'm a bad person for saying something? Sometimes calling someone on the carpet is what it takes to save the lives of poor defenseless chickens.

I love this forum and I love most of the folks who are here. I offer blurbs from periodicals that I know some can't afford to HELP them. Not to show off how much I know. Much of what I do know I've learned from this Forum since the day I got chicks and needed help and found it.

Certainly we can't protect against all attacks but Lord have mercy when you know there is a problem DO SOMETHING. Even if it means sleeping in the coop. At least until you've made the necessary fixed to keep your birds safe.

Otherwise please, please, please give up keeping chickens.

If you "judge" me for being mean for writing then you're just being "judgmental".

Yours truly,

Rancher
 
Well isn't this the pot calling the kettle black. Rancher Hicks you accuse others of being judgemental, well you are judgemental yourself. You don't have to subscribe to others chicken keeping methods or agree with how you perceive they value their birds but when you come on here and use words like "negligent" and "lazy", make no mistake about it, you are being judgemental. That's the cool thing though--we are all free to be equally judgemental. But if you dole it out, don't complain if you get it in return.

As for me personally. Yes, I value my chickens' lives less than I value my dogs' lives. If the coop was burning and it was the chickens or the dogs, I'd save the dogs. Heck, I'd probably trample some chickens to get to the dogs. That being said, I take all reasonable precautions to keep my birds safe. But, here's the thing, I get to decide what is reasonable. Your suggestion of sleeping in the coop is not reasonable, IMO. If you want to judge me for that then go ahead and I'll judge you right back (because that's what we do on the internet).

Lastly, I don't recall seeing anyone being all blaise about losing their birds. After all, they must care enough or feel bad enough to want to find a solution since they are posting on the internet. For that, I'll continue to offer them a sympathetic word because I also value the feelings of people trying to do right by their chickens over the chickens.
 
I haven't been following this as I know there are some who disagree with my point of view. I didn't realize I'd catch so much flack. For that I am sorry. 


dont be sorry. Everyone has a right to their own opinion and you weren't rude or nasty in expressing yours and I think you made it pretty clear you weren't referring to everyone who has lost birds. What I hear rather is just total frustration and have to admit have felt that too.

It's not just predators either, it's bird losses in general. I Remember going back through one posters threads after something caught my attention and for months and moths they had been posting alternately about their chickens dying of disease and about buying new birds. That is the sort of poster I took you to be referring to. Common sense says deal with your disease problem (or predator) first but instead they just keep buying and the birds keep dying and they post again and again about their losses and not realising the back story people offer advice which is too much effort for them to take and they buy more birds as a quick fix instead. I've seen the same thing with predator posts, advice is given, advice is ignored and birds die and are replaced as it's easier. Not fair to the poor birds.
 
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A couple of times I've accidentally caught a raccoon instead.  Once I released it where it was trapped and the other two were taken out into the wild woods, into forests that are miles from any private property.


Someone owns the land you dumped them on... And I don't care if it's miles away you still have no right to dump animals of on another persons land anymore than they have the right to dump animal off on your land...

Almost all states (I don't personally know an exception) forbid the relocation of raccoons or have very strict rules that must be followed for relocation and for good reason, they are nuisance animals that carry diseases and passing off the nuisance animal to someone else is not an appropriate solution...

I'm not relocating problems to other people.

Sure you did, you dumped your unwanted problem on someone else's land, it's pretty black and white from where I stand, unless you obtained permission from the land owner and followed all applicable laws when you relocated...
 
What have you found to be most effective in repelling predators?
What methods have you found to be useless


I personally believe that for all intents 'repelling' predators is a useless approach in itself, predators simply don't go away and almost all 'repelling' methods are very temporary and the predator is simply sitting in the waiting out of sight until it gets accustomed to the repellent... You might push/repel them away for a bit but they will return in time once they gather the courage to overcome, and for many predators that time period is measured in days/weeks not months/years...

Predators like coyotes, domestic dogs, weasels and raccoons are for all intents fully urbanized in most parts of the US, they have little or no fear of 'repellents' and if they do show some initial fear it is almost a guarantee that the fear will be erased in short as they simply get used to and start ignoring it...

Things like scents, motion activated this or that, lights, scarecrows, flashing objects, noise makers or what not simply don't work long term on many common chicken predators... People generally get a false sense of security using these devices, they install them and then because they don't experience a loss for a week or two or even a month that the problem is solved... Many miss the fact that correlation does not equate to causation... Meaning the fact you put up some blinking red lights and the coyotes has not been seen, does not mean the lights drove the coyotes away... Coyotes like many other predators hunt in a full 360° area around their home, they deliberately rotate and choose the easy hunting grounds at any given moment... All the 'repellent' does is make them shift to their next hunting ground temporarily, they will return back to the chicken buffet as they rotate through their 360° hunting pattern depleting those other areas of food and by then they will almost always be immune to the repellent that was put in place as it's now that norm...

One other thing to note, just because you are not experiencing losses does not mean you are not being hunted by the predators... Game cameras can be real eye openers on how often your coop area or yard is actually visited by predators that simply have not taken the next step to attack...

IMO the best predator protection bar none is physical fortification against entry, confinement of birds to this fortified location, a live full time active flock protection animal and/or disposal of immediate vicinity predators when possible...
 
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rancher,

while it can seem frustrating, I think honey is better than vinegar, if you would have people heed your advice.

of course we want all of our BYC folks to practice good husbandry with their birds. But the aggressive, in your face attitude you've adopted concerning it in two three threads (one duplicate) could very well put off folks for asking advice, in fear of being humiliated by you.

I've agreed with almost all of your advice, just not the presentation of all of it.


yes, chickens are cheap. yes they are bountiful, and easily aquired, but it's not like these poor chicken care givers are here looking for advice on how to keep their kids safe. In the end, chickens are just chickens, not CHICKENS.
 
Just seeing this thread now, and I have to agree with the original poster. It's extremely frustrating seeing posts where people talk about how often they lose birds (chickens, ducks etc) and yet they never provided adequate predator proofing initially, and fail to upgrade even after attacks. Makes you bang your head on your keyboard.
I feel the exact same way about people who get ANY kind of pet but do not have the means to provide proper veterinary care. They post on social media "Help! My (dog, cat, bunny, duck) is sick!" And when you say "Take them to a vet" their answer is "I don't have the money/transportation/no exotic vets in my area", etc.
Well, if you know you have limited means, have no reliable transportation or there is no vet nearby who can treat your specific pet - then don't you think you really ought to reconsider getting that pet to begin with?
 
What have you found to be most effective in repelling predators?
What methods have you found to be useless.

Curious about all predators but main issues here are with foxes and owls.



Following is based on direct observations. I can go months or years between sightings on property then they can come in very regularly for a while.

Red Fox
Hunts around the clock and appears to have an established route that consistent patrols
You can smell even when they just pass through
Will hunt with you present once it gets on the trail of a victim which can get into trouble if you have dogs
Does not respect human urine
Does not respect dog urine
May respect Coyote urine
Will not visit when Coyote pack nearby
Can be beat by well positioned hotwires
Can be beat with electrified poultry netting
Good hard chase by a dog will keep it away for months
Dogs can catch and kill them more often than you think possible
Can run fast but not faster than a dog in a straight line. Will use fences and tight turns to evade dog but two smart dog can defeat those options
Cannot out run a dog when carrying even a 3-lb chicken
May follow Great Horned Owl that knocks chickens off roost to go after birds owl ignore or even scavenge (in fall both can come in a single night with fox only minutes behind owl)
Has a hard time killing larger birds which can get into trouble if you have dogs
My games chickens as adults are almost immune to these guys except when defending offspring.
Will work pen perimters to worry a chicken into corner or edge where it will pull bird through so I will move pens together when fox working area
Digs but not when dogs present
Has yet to chew through wire like Raccoons, Oppossums and even domestic dogs are prone to do
Not all Red Foxes go after chickens. A few years back we had one that hunted for rodents within site of free-range chickens without incident. Fox from other direction not friends with first would.


Grey Fox
I have almost not experience with these although dogs did get into one a year or so ago when persimmons in fruit
Does not range as much as Red Fox


Great Horned Owl
Here comes first for rodents / rabbits with chickens being targets of opportunity
Eats head and neck plus able to do so within a couple of minutes
Will start with a 4.5-lb live weight chicken with 3 or four nights of repeated meals before small enough to carry off
Can carry at most about 2 lbs and must drag carcass in to tree to launch.
Drives larger targets off roost and grapples them on ground, often drives multiple from roost then picks one
Somehow it drives victims from perch without actually contacting them
Will go after adults but selectively harvest smaller chickens and will even pull chicks from under wings of hens.
Very predictable in terms of when visits each night.
Will follow me around as I do chores in near dark conditions
Will come in quickly when chickens disturbed
Will stare at dogs only 10 feet below but will fly when I am also present
Difficult to remove when entangled in netting (bites and strikes with talons)
Will hunt from ground
Does not respect scarecrows
Can be stopped with bird netting and seems to not even want to walk near it
Can bluff most dogs when on ground, except Scoob
Close call with dog does scare them off for weeks
Can reach chickens within 6" of a 2 x 4 welded wire panel but stopped by chicken wire unless chicken roosting tight against it
Hard to stop with hotwire actually attached to coop
Not real smart about very clean windows

Barred Owl
Targets chicks and I have never had one go after adults
Seems to come only on very dark nights when GHO's not around.
During winter eruptions of Short-eared Owls the Barred owls get stupid taking more risks hunting
 
I fully agree with the original poster and posted a similar thread about a month ago.

Just the other day I read a thread about a person who has lost 26 adult birds over a course of time to the same predator but made no comments on what they had done to eliminate the predatory or protect their birds.

Yes, Losing birds happens. But it should be the exception. A rare occurance.
Continuing to lose birds and doing nothing is simply sickeningly irresponsible.
If you can't protect your birds or do not have the desire to kill a predator, get out of keeping chickens.
 

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