Ideal spacing between deworming and antibiotics? Can they be done simultaneously?

[Mt Hood Hens]

First time poster. Long time reader

I would love to start by saying that I wish I would have found this forum prior to ever beginning this poultry journey. Many things would have been avoided. But since they weren't, here's what's up:

3 hens need a combination of deworming and antibiotics.

1. Used 1/2cc valbazen, per hen, today and will repeat in 10 days.

2. 1/2cc of Tylan per hen needs administering for 7 days. Avian Dr thinks Tylan should commence tomorrow.

Just wondering about differing opinions. Reason for the inquiry is one hen has already died and the other 3 are sick enough that it seems like they might be overwhelmed with simultaneous medications. However, holding off on either might very well lead to death.
Also, Avian Dr did not see the birds but did a consul over the phone, and reviewed photos sent in.

After reading many many posts, it seems that culling the hens would be a legitimate option. Sanitize the coop and start over. However, we can commit to no-new-birds, until the remaining 3 pass on. We don't sell eggs and are not hatching chicks.

I thank you all in advance, and hope that someday soon I will have accumulated the knowledge to return the favor to you all

 

[dawg53]

First time poster. Long time reader

I would love to start by saying that I wish I would have found this forum prior to ever beginning this poultry journey. Many things would have been avoided. But since they weren't, here's what's up:

3 hens need a combination of deworming and antibiotics.

1. Used 1/2cc valbazen, per hen, today and will repeat in 10 days.

2. 1/2cc of Tylan per hen needs administering for 7 days. Avian Dr thinks Tylan should commence tomorrow.

Just wondering about differing opinions. Reason for the inquiry is one hen has already died and the other 3 are sick enough that it seems like they might be overwhelmed with simultaneous medications. However, holding off on either might very well lead to death.
Also, Avian Dr did not see the birds but did a consul over the phone, and reviewed photos sent in.

After reading many many posts, it seems that culling the hens would be a legitimate option. Sanitize the coop and start over. However, we can commit to no-new-birds, until the remaining 3 pass on. We don't sell eggs and are not hatching chicks.

I thank you all in advance, and hope that someday soon I will have accumulated the knowledge to return the favor to you all

There's always the possibility that worms couldve weakened your chickens immune system allowing whatever disease they're dealing with to overwhelm them, thus requiring the use of antibiotics. Eliminate the worms first with valbazen since they could be the root cause, then treat with tylan at least 5 days after the initial worming. Valbazen slowly kills worms over several days preventing toxic dead worm overload. After worming, feed your birds scrambled eggs mixed with buttermilk the next couple of days. The buttermilk is a better probiotic than yogurt and is easily absorbed than yogurt, it also coats the intestines. Buttermilk will help rebuild their immune system and the scrambled eggs are extra protein to help rebuild their strength. I never recommend using two or more medications at once, one at a time is best. On the 5th day, inject 1/2cc tylan once a day into the breast muscle just under the skin. Rotate breasts and dont inject into the same site each day. With respiratory diseases, your other option is to cull.

 

[Suzierd]

Do they have respiratory symptoms?

 

[Mt Hood Hens]

Thank you so much.

Just so I'm clear, here's the schedule:
Today- Valbazen
Wait 5 days.
Only 5 days of injected Tylan
The last day of Tylan will also be the day for the 2nd dose of Valbazen.


The Dr was going to have me administer the Tylan by mouth, not injection, which is probably why they suggested 7 days of that. If I go with the administration by mouth, that will over lap the second dose of dewormer a couple days.

I saw the suggestion of mixing the buttermilk with scrambled eggs in other posts as well and have already put those on the to-get list.

I am assuming it is probably not advisable to use the eggs laid during all this medicating for the scrambled/buttermilk diet.....not that there have been many eggs anyway. One of the issues the Doc had was the eggs were coming out extremely textured like sand paper. Or, "shell-less". The hen that already died laid an egg the size of a goose egg the day before she died. It was textured like it had chipped up pieces of egg shell stuck on it, and it was really thin shelled and a lighter color.

Sooooooooo much to learn. Thank you again.

 

[Mt Hood Hens]

Yes, they have bubbly nasal discharge, serious decrease in egg production, rales(who knew a hen could sound so bad), runny discolored poops, they're all puffed out, coughing, and spray liquid when they sneeze. They are not swollen anywhere, and eyes are clear. Their shells have come out very textured which can suggest respiratory issues as well. One migrating swallow was also found in the hen yard, puffed up and in clear distress. I was able to pick it up and remove it from the yard with out it even seeming to notice. It sneezed on my glove and a greenish snot came out. The Doc, with not much explanation, thought antibiotics were in order asap. Seemed like once I mentioned the migrating swallow, the tone of voice changed a bit. The term infectious bronchitis was uttered.
They are also lethargic, but that could also be the worms. Those are clearly visible in the stool. There appear to be 2 different kinds. Very tiny hairlike ones, in masses. And large bits of "spagetti noodle" pieces that are still alive and moving.

 

[dawg53]

Yes, they have bubbly nasal discharge, serious decrease in egg production, rales(who knew a hen could sound so bad), runny discolored poops, they're all puffed out, coughing, and spray liquid when they sneeze. They are not swollen anywhere, and eyes are clear. Their shells have come out very textured which can suggest respiratory issues as well. One migrating swallow was also found in the hen yard, puffed up and in clear distress. I was able to pick it up and remove it from the yard with out it even seeming to notice. It sneezed on my glove and a greenish snot came out. The Doc, with not much explanation, thought antibiotics were in order asap. Seemed like once I mentioned the migrating swallow, the tone of voice changed a bit. The term infectious bronchitis was uttered.
They are also lethargic, but that could also be the worms. Those are clearly visible in the stool. There appear to be 2 different kinds. Very tiny hairlike ones, in masses. And large bits of "spagetti noodle" pieces that are still alive and moving.

The doc is correct. Tylan 50 injectable can be given orally for 7 days. Infectious Bronchitis has to run through the flock. Birds usually get over it eventually and resume laying eggs although at a slower rate. Eggs laid by infected hens have watery whites, shells are malformed and wrinkled. The worms you described definitely sounds like capillary worms and the spagetti noodle pieces could be cecal worms if they are about 1/4" to 1/2" long. Valbazen will kill both. As far as reworming valbazen with a second dosing which I strongly recommend; dose with the tylan orally starting the 5th day after the initial valbazen dosing. Give the tylan orally once a day for 7 days (finished at 12th day.) Then on the 13th day redose with the valbazen. It's normally recommended to redose wormers in a 10 to 14 days time frame. (Except when dealing with tapeworms and gapeworms.) Toss eggs in the garbage for 2 weeks after the last dosing or give them to your dogs,

 

[Mt Hood Hens]

Morning,
Wow, great info! It will be followed to the T. What a feeling of relief to have this game plan

.
And, the dogs are going to love the eggs I'm glad the eggs won't have to be thrown away.
Have a great day,


Thanks again.
Mt Hood Hens

 

[Mt Hood Hens]

Update;
Today is the first day of the Tylan 50. Took Dawg's buttermilk/egg idea and added the 1/2cc dose Tylan to it. Mixed up 3 separate dosed servings and put in plastic jar lids. Each hen got a lid full. They loved it.
Worms are no longer visable in stool at this point. Will follow through with the 7 day, orally dosed, antibiotics. And, then one last dose of Valbazen.
Dogs have enjoyed the eggs so much.

 

[Mt Hood Hens]

Update: 5/10/13
Tomorrow is the last day of Tylan 50(1/2cc/hen/day). They went through a couple days of no snotty noses, but now 2 of the 3 have snot again, and still have a very strong rattling sound. All signs of worms are gone, thank goodness. This morning two of them had very watery diarrhea with green solids. One of them(without the snot) seems to breath only through her mouth. She'll take a drink of buttermilk, then stop, open her mouth and breath and then drink more. When she's breathing, she sounds "hissy". Other than these symptoms, they are running around, dustbathing, clucking at me if they see me through the window, and I'm getting 2 eggs per day, which is an increase from 0-1. I need to do the other dose of Valbazen on Sunday, so I will follow through with that.
If after the completian of the Tylan 50 and Valbazen, the hens still look sick, I'm not sure exactly what I'll do, but I've already been reading about fungal infections, gapeworms, etc.....
If they were going to die of a fungal infection or gapeworms, wouldn't they already be dead by now?(going on 4 weeks of symptoms)
Hum....
Here's another theory I have. Maybe it's the DE and lime I mixed in with the sand, in the coop and run. I would like to remove those two things, but don't see how what would be possible. Last night I sprinkled everything down, hoping that possibly the finer DE and Lime would at least wash through the sand and settle more at the bottom. When I scoop the sand for poops, it is very very dusty. I think I only added @ 4cups max of the DE into about 4'x12'x3" of sand. There is about 1cup(I think, I can't quite remember) of lime in that mix too.
They seem to sound worse in the morning, after they've been cooped up all night.

 

[dawg53]

You're right on two counts; if they had gapes, they'd be dead by now. DE and lime could be the problem, you're ok with the sand. Tylan would have no effect treating a fungal nor DE/lime problem(s.)