I'm losing chickens one by one

[mafaller]

dlhunicorn

I saw it, so you're saying it might have been avian influenza but the descriptions would be about the same? Sorry, just clarifying so I can research.

Thanks

 

[dlhunicorn]

No... mycotoxin > specifically aflatoxin (did I post the wrong link?)
http://partnersah.vet.cornell.edu/avian-atlas/search/lesion/385

... just a suggestion mind you but considering the age of the flock etc. it would seem to fit as one possible explanation...

 

[mafaller]

Sorry dlhunicorn

I'll go look up aflatoxin but on the link it looks like it's for avian influenza. Maybe I'm reading it wrong. Thanks. I'll check this out.

 

[dlhunicorn]

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/212202.htm
the above is the Merck manual page on it... I will check on that link as I was searching this site for another matter and when I read your post (I have weveral tabs open and am working on multiple posts on different groups) I connected to a different page on mycotoxins and then copied the link from that... perhaps something got muddled

lemme look for the problem and I will get back to you...

ETA: ok I see now what you are referring to LOL...
To get to the page on mycotoxins :
There is a menu in the upper right of that page... scroll down and at the bottom you will see MYCOTOXIN > click that and you will be on the page (apparently not possible to post the direct link)
Look specifically at the info on aflatoxin.
Diana

 

[threehorses]

Quote:
Well, regardless I would worm, yes. I would also really wait to talk to your vet - perhaps get a consultation from another vet, if she can refer the results to an associate perhaps, before making any decisions. Were there any more statements at all on the necropsy? Or are they perhaps waiting for other tests back? The results you got were from a necropsy; I wonder if there was a histopathology done as well pending.

I would think that they would have mentioned other organ abnormalities, honestly. Or since mentioning possible pathogenic insult, some other tests for other bacteria for example. Or listed that tests were negative.

 

[dlhunicorn]

more info:
http://www.noble.org/ag/Soils/Aflatoxin/index.html
Understanding and Preventing Aflatoxin Poisoning
:"....Heat and lack of rainfall this summer have caused several problems for farmers and ranchers in Southern Oklahoma and Texas. Among these is the presence of aflatoxincontaminated grain being produced in the region. Aflatoxins are poisonous by-products produced from the fungi Aspergillus flavus and A. parasiticus. These fungi are found in the soil and are responsible for decomposition of plant materials.


Aflatoxin contaminated corn.
Photo/Courtsey Purdue University, Department of Botany and Plant Pathology.
Aspergillus is a mold that infects corn when stressed, but can infect other crops in the region such as grain sorghum, peanuts and cotton. Aflatoxins are odorless, tasteless and have no color: thus, they are difficult to detect. These toxins are extremely poisonous to humans, livestock and poultry. Four major types of aflatoxins are B1, B2, G1 and G2. Though all of these toxins are usually found in grain at a minute level, B1 is typically more abundant and causes an increased protein requirement in livestock and poultry that consume it.

Accumulation of aflatoxins is dependent on weather conditions. A dry growing environment or drought stress tends to favor the development of aflatoxins in corn. When soil moisture is below normal and temperatures are high, the number of Aspergillus spores in the air increases. During pollination, these spores infect corn kernels either through silks (pollination tubes) or through areas of damage caused by insects, birds and weather events. Once infected, plant stress such as nutrient deficiency, continued dry weather or kernel damage during harvest may increase aflatoxin levels.....

.....Aflatoxin consumption by livestock and poultry results in a disease called aflatoxicosis. Aflatoxins are metabolized in the liver of all living organisms. High concentrations can lead to acute liver disease or death within 72 hours. Lower concentrations have produced various symptoms, such as feed refusal, decreased feed efficiency, impaired reproduction, hemorrhaging in muscles and suppression of the immune system.

Feeding grain contaminated with any level of aflatoxin carries a considerable amount of risk............
........Grain in the region has become extremely affordable as a result of the drought and fear of aflatoxin contamination......If symptoms occur, discontinue feeding contaminated grain and return to an aflatoxin free diet immediately.

For more information about aflatoxins or laboratory locations, contact the Noble Foundation..."

Find a new source of feed is my advice just in case... review your storage situation etc.

 

[mafaller]

Nathalie,

They did tons of tests, some locally and others they sent off. I believe the report I have is all the tests reported together. I will definitely speak with him, as I still feel I don't have real answers, per se.

Necropsy interpretive summary

Histopathology found the main lesion of diffuse vacuolar changes in the liver. Congestiion was seen in the spleen and lungs. The lymphoid hyperplasia in multiple locations was presumed to be reactive to ongoing pathogenic/parasitic insults over a period of time. Parasitology found ascarids. All other testing was negative.

Necropsy Report:

The submission of two live (one hen and one rooster) adult chickens in good nutritional condition. Externally no signs of disease or lesions were observed prior to euthanasia. Both birds had excessive body cavity fat. The heart, trachea, and lungs were unremarkable. All other internal organs and structures appeared grossly normal. Histopathology, bacterial swab, swab for END/AI, and virology were sent to the Kissimmee Lab. Serology and parasitology are pending at the Live Oak Lab.

The Histopathology report from Kissimmee was what I originally posted here.

Bacteriology was all negative

Virology was negative

Molecular Biology for Influenza Type A PCR was negative

Avian paramyxovirus Type 1 PCR was negative

Parasitology-poultry intestinal mucosal scr was negative as was the poultry crop scrape. The fecal flotation test came up positive for ascaridia galli 1+ in the hen. No mention of the rooster.

LO Poultry mycoplasm gallisepticum plate agglutination test was negative for hen and rooster. Mycoplasm synoviae plate agglutination was negative for both.

I think that's about it. I'm pretty sure by the way the report reads that all tests are in. Hopefully I filled in any blanks if you still have them.


DLHUNICORN: I've got a crying baby and I'll get back to the article. Thanks.

 

[dlhunicorn]

it really is too bad that no necropsy was done on the deceased birds
(crying babies come first!)

 

[threehorses]

Oh well they both had extreme fat in the body cavity. THat's a big important piece of information, as are the tests for disease. There are still some parasite tests, virus tests, blood tests. Maybe they'll say something.

Diana, for some reason some places don't do necropsies on deceased birds here. (Probably because of the changes in tissues if people don't 'store' them right.) It's unfortunate that one has to call each individual place and ask what they will "accept", not even just what they want. Some places will simply not accept carcasses. /sigh Frustrating.

 

[anngili]

Although a newbie to chicken raising, here's some thoughts that I've had.
1. Since there doesn't appear to currently be an infection in the two birds that you took in but they've both got evidence of previous attacks of pathogens and/or parasites, my first thought is that either they're missing something nutritionally or something else is depressing their immune system enough that they're repeatedly getting the same infection or different ones. It could also be a combination of both, but I'm guessing it at least includes the first, especially since your birds appeared to respond quickly to the Glop.

2. The hepatic lipidosis (fatty liver) is notable in your healthy-appearing birds; ones with more advanced cases may be dying of liver failure. You wouldn't get much warning before they died and that appears to be what's happening with yours. Even if the Glop looked like it perked up all of the chickens, those with livers that were already severely damaged were probably just hanging on by a thread or already dying. Prey animals are very good at compensating for and hiding severe health problems until they're too far gone to do much about it.

3. A biotin deficiency might be playing a large role in this and mold in the hay and/or mold toxins in the feed could be the straw that broke the camel's back (or vice a versa). A number of things can reduce the availability of biotin in a feed, even one that's a good feed. One of the factors is heat.

4. You can have low level of mold in hay or straw that has gotten damp, low enough that you may not notice it, especially since it can be hidden by nice, dry hay or straw on the surface. It could still affect chickens that stir up the bedding and then ingest either by mouth or breathing.

What I'd do in your situation (just my personal choice and you'd probably want to check these out with your vet or extension agent beforehand):

1. Keep the few hens you have left and try changing some variables to see if it can reduce or halt the problem. You might be extending the time they're ill, but you'll be able to gain more information (even if it's what doesn't work) that will help your new chickens survive. And there's a chance that you may be able to turn things around for them and pass on helpful information to someone else who runs into the same problem in the future.

2. Get rid of the old hay or straw (if you haven't already) immediately, and put down some sand and pine chips on top of the sand. The sand will help dry out the soil underneath and also cover up (at least temporarily) any mold, mold spores, and mold toxins that might be there. The pine shavings will prevent more growing and are less likely to allow other pathogenic problems to flourish.

3. Change feed and check to see if it and (if possible) it's ingredients could possibly have been exposed to high heat. Heat will degrade biotin (and other key nutrients) very quickly and there is the aflatoxin problem, too, with high heat. It's been up to around 109 degrees (in the shade) at my house in central texas and morning humidity levels of around 90%, and that's mold heaven. I'm currently keeping all of my feed in my air-conditioned house and buying it from a feed store that keeps the poultry feed in cool areas.

A number of other things can also result in very reduced biotin deficiency in feed, including something as simple as a long storage time. Biotin deficiency can cause severe hepatic lipidosis and quick, undiagnosed deaths due to liver failure in poultry. It's much more common in countries that don't have good balanced poultry feeds available and can cause high mortality rates, and will often kill females at a higher rate than males. One of the symptoms is weakening of the legs, too, which you've been seeing. Another one is reduced growth rate, which you've also seen. There are other symptoms but you may not seem them or notice them before the bird keels over.

4. Add LOTS of biotin and B-vitamins, to their diet. Those break down quickly and help with a lot of digestion and metabolism problems. I'd try to use pretty fresh cultured yogurt, and maybe also cooked eggs, and maybe even cottage cheese. The Glop sounds like it helped, at least somewhat, and (although I'd specifically check with the vet) I don't think it will hurt. It will also keep their guts in good condition through the worming process. Also, the fresher the yogurt, the higher the biotin content. Too much protein may tax the liver and kidneys, so I wouldn't try to specifically drop the carbohydrate level because that will raise the protein level on top of the Glop raising the protein level. No reason to add insult to an injured liver. Livers can repair themselves to a certain extent, so you can always try more protein a bit later.

5. Examine the other chickens when feeding them the Glop or other biotin source and take scrupulous notes. You may be able to quickly train the chickens to sit on your leg and eat an individual serving of Glop. My chickens get treats every day (in small amounts) and it didn't take them long to figure out that getting out and quietly sitting on my leg meant very good food was coming. My biggest danger now is getting mobbed by them. My latest batch of chicks started rushing the gate on the dog crate they're in after two days of treats and I have to be quite careful that the ones in front don't get knocked out of the crate by the ones right behind them.

I, like everyone else in BYC, am so sorry that you're going through this and sorry for your chickens, too, of course. Don't forget we're all rooting for you!!!

Best wishes,
Ann
(Now I'm off to get some Glop made for my chickens!)