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Sorry to say, but the idea that "its all in the training/raising" of a dog dictates behavior is false. Training and raising a dog can exaggerate/exacerbate/compliment a dogs natural genetic temperament. All dogs are born with a temperament and genetics that tell them how to deal with life, stress, situations and so forth. The way the dog sees and reacts to his environment is, for the most part, hard wired. Good sound judgment and raising of a dog can make the dog safer, more predictable and more reliable as a companion. Genetics are very very powerful.
I have seen far too many puppies that are trained "right", raised "right" and just over all had really good people for owners. I have seen these same dogs super fearful, super reactive and super aggressive for NO other reason than a poor temperament. This includes Pitties and AmStaffs. I worked at a large dog training facility and our head trainer bred pitties and Ams for show and working. Her dogs were obedience champions, Schutzhund trialed and finished, and conformation champions as well. Her dogs were well socialized, trained. All that you could ask an owner to do with their dog.
Long story short several dogs from her breedings were put to sleep for killing other dogs, dogs that they were raised with from puppies (and, incedently raised by other trainers at the facility). Her dogs also were known to be extremely reactive to unknown stressful situations. These were dogs that were also obedience champions, finished show dogs and raised by really knowledgeable owners. One of her dogs got lose one time on the training facility grounds and the dog freaked totally when a person the dog had known all its life approached. Became very aggressive and fearful. Just an unknown situation to the dog, but with a proper temperament the dog wouldn't have ever seen such a situation as a threat.
The only way to truely know what you have in a dog's temperament is to test the dog to stressors and gauge reactions and how long it takes for the dog to recover from stress. Every dog that has teeth and a mouth that opens can bite. Every dog has aggression in its genetic make up, after all aggression is an NORMAL canine behavior.
ETA: I have also known lots of pitties that were great dogs with excellent temperaments. I was just trying to make a point about nature vs nurture.
WHO THE YOU KNOW WHAT WAS THIS? Obedience champions? OTCHs? in the UKC? not in the AKC. I know all the OTCHs in the AKC. Please pm the info to me if you are not comfortable posting it. Was this the Cheeks, One Stone? Who?
I respect your opinion enormously as a trainer, and do agree that some lines in any breed just have bad temperaments. i have had a bad experience with a Pit in class, and with Mals and GSDs. Mals and GSDs generally will go after humans or small dogs, the pit went after a dog. Fortunately the owners are usually on top of things. That is just insane a breeder kept a line like that.
This was back in 1998 that I worked in this facility. The other trainer, I won't say her name on here, but if you think you might know her then I will tell you more information. My example in this text was true and I witnessed one of the emergencies with a dog from this trainers breeding. The female pit had been in the same home with another trainer at the facility since she was 10 weeks old. As an adult dog she was out exercising with two other dogs, one another pit and one a bloodhound (both housemates of the dog). Both the other dogs were seriously injured and required a huge amount of after care. It was just a mess. I saw the dogs right after it happened. I was really shocked that ONE dog could do that much damage to TWO other larger dogs.
To be honest Idk if the OB titles were UKC or AKC but I do know I went to one AKC conformation show where this trainer/breeder had about four dogs in the show in different age classes. She also had her main stud dog titled in SchH 1 and possibly SchH 2.
Sorry to say, but the idea that "its all in the training/raising" of a dog dictates behavior is false. Training and raising a dog can exaggerate/exacerbate/compliment a dogs natural genetic temperament. All dogs are born with a temperament and genetics that tell them how to deal with life, stress, situations and so forth. The way the dog sees and reacts to his environment is, for the most part, hard wired. Good sound judgment and raising of a dog can make the dog safer, more predictable and more reliable as a companion. Genetics are very very powerful.
I have seen far too many puppies that are trained "right", raised "right" and just over all had really good people for owners. I have seen these same dogs super fearful, super reactive and super aggressive for NO other reason than a poor temperament. This includes Pitties and AmStaffs. I worked at a large dog training facility and our head trainer bred pitties and Ams for show and working. Her dogs were obedience champions, Schutzhund trialed and finished, and conformation champions as well. Her dogs were well socialized, trained. All that you could ask an owner to do with their dog.
Long story short several dogs from her breedings were put to sleep for killing other dogs, dogs that they were raised with from puppies (and, incedently raised by other trainers at the facility). Her dogs also were known to be extremely reactive to unknown stressful situations. These were dogs that were also obedience champions, finished show dogs and raised by really knowledgeable owners. One of her dogs got lose one time on the training facility grounds and the dog freaked totally when a person the dog had known all its life approached. Became very aggressive and fearful. Just an unknown situation to the dog, but with a proper temperament the dog wouldn't have ever seen such a situation as a threat.
The only way to truely know what you have in a dog's temperament is to test the dog to stressors and gauge reactions and how long it takes for the dog to recover from stress. Every dog that has teeth and a mouth that opens can bite. Every dog has aggression in its genetic make up, after all aggression is an NORMAL canine behavior.
ETA: I have also known lots of pitties that were great dogs with excellent temperaments. I was just trying to make a point about nature vs nurture.
WHO THE YOU KNOW WHAT WAS THIS? Obedience champions? OTCHs? in the UKC? not in the AKC. I know all the OTCHs in the AKC. Please pm the info to me if you are not comfortable posting it. Was this the Cheeks, One Stone? Who?
I respect your opinion enormously as a trainer, and do agree that some lines in any breed just have bad temperaments. i have had a bad experience with a Pit in class, and with Mals and GSDs. Mals and GSDs generally will go after humans or small dogs, the pit went after a dog. Fortunately the owners are usually on top of things. That is just insane a breeder kept a line like that.
This was back in 1998 that I worked in this facility. The other trainer, I won't say her name on here, but if you think you might know her then I will tell you more information. My example in this text was true and I witnessed one of the emergencies with a dog from this trainers breeding. The female pit had been in the same home with another trainer at the facility since she was 10 weeks old. As an adult dog she was out exercising with two other dogs, one another pit and one a bloodhound (both housemates of the dog). Both the other dogs were seriously injured and required a huge amount of after care. It was just a mess. I saw the dogs right after it happened. I was really shocked that ONE dog could do that much damage to TWO other larger dogs.
To be honest Idk if the OB titles were UKC or AKC but I do know I went to one AKC conformation show where this trainer/breeder had about four dogs in the show in different age classes. She also had her main stud dog titled in SchH 1 and possibly SchH 2.
