Injured young Am Buff gander

[Miss Lydia]

DO YOU HEAR ME SHOUTING!!!!

Found it this morning, almost didn't see it as she had it buried in the shavings. Their first egg.......awwwwwwwwwww

They are also successfully breeding - I've witnessed it, along with the celebratory honking and carrying on, GO TELL IT ON THE MOUNTAIN!!

This sounds like everything is wonderful, but there is a problem that has required a considerable amount of attention and I'm still very concerned. I told you that she had bitten his foot one day when he was trying to get things figured out, unfortunately this has become a very undesirable consistent behavior of hers. I can't figure out why she wants to do this since she is more than a willing participant and appears to like him a lot. The bad news is the toe has not been able to heal because every time it scabs over, she tears it off. The toe will be permanently mutilated which I don't care about other than the fact that it hurts him so. After a long stint of penicillin. at a very high dosage I finally got rid of the infection, but I'm having to watch him and check it every morning and evening to make sure it doesn't get started again. Which brings me to this point, I want to brag on my geese a little. I realize this could change at any minute, but so far they mate right under the bucket as I'm drawing water from the hydrant, and show little concern about where I am or what I'm doing around them. They demonstrate absolutely no aggression toward me at all. As much as I've had to handle Will, I thought for sure there would be a point where I would find his disposition heading toward the protective, aggressive side and he would become nearly impossible to handle. I haven't had to give him any pills for a while, which I think he greatly appreciates - he clearly hated that part, but I've worked on his foot every morning and evening since this began, putting antibiotic salve on the toe and he has tolerated that extremely well, even to the point that I could put it on without having to restrain or hold him. This evening I thought that surely it would feel good to bathe and soak his foot in warm water so I fixed a bucket with a little of the antibiotic salve dissolved in it. We have a corner of the run where we always do the doctoring, so he went to his corner and I knelt down, put my hand on his chest to keep him from taking off and began to run the warm water over his foot. At first of course it startled him and we went through a moment of hysteria (not actually that bad, but he really wanted to leave) but when he realized that it wasn't going to hurt he not only settled down quickly, but he reached down and gently mouthed my hand that was on his chest. Well, you might guess that almost made me cry as it does now writing about it. He is such a sweet boy and I don't know how to protect his foot. At times I think I should separate them, but that would really cause a ruckus and of course end up with infertile eggs. However if having dud eggs was the only problem, that wouldn't upset me. It's not important that they have babies right now, especially if it would help Will and didn't cause him so much anxiety that he would be miserable and maybe even hurt himself trying to get to Kate.
Lydia or anyone else if you have ANY ideas I'd sure welcome it?

Hey lilcrow so excited for you and that first egg. I kinda think you are too, lol and the fact that they are not showing any aggression is amazing. But so cool. as for the toe, have you thought about wrapping it for a while to see if that may get her mind off of it? you may need some help to do it, but maybe some gauze with salve on it then wrap with the vet wrap that sticks to itself. They may get it off and you might have to do it several times but having it covered may get her out of this habit she is in. I think separating would cause way to much stress on them both especially during this time of year. What do you think?

 

[lilcrow]

Hey lilcrow so excited for you and that first egg. I kinda think you are too, lol and the fact that they are not showing any aggression is amazing. But so cool. as for the toe, have you thought about wrapping it for a while to see if that may get her mind off of it? you may need some help to do it, but maybe some gauze with salve on it then wrap with the vet wrap that sticks to itself. They may get it off and you might have to do it several times but having it covered may get her out of this habit she is in. I think separating would cause way to much stress on them both especially during this time of year. What do you think?

Yes, I don't feel good at all about separating them. I was considering as a last ditch effort, but even at that I agree with you about the stress. I know how Kate can get if she's just confined longer than she thinks she should be and that's with Will in with her. She almost tries to climb the wire and it would only be worse if they were separated. I had been thinking about wrapping it, but I figured they'd be pickin' at that immediately. I've never seen anything like these guys for wanting to mess with, pick at and generally tear stuff up like they do, particularly Kate. I think I can wrap his foot by myself if I can just figure out how to do it. How do I make the allowance for the folding and spreading of the foot? I've got all the stuff you mentioned, plenty of gauze, vetwrap and salve, I just can't see the mechanics of it. Do I wrap it as he's standing on it to spread it out or try wrapping while it's folded. The later doesn't seem to me that it would work very well because of the problems he would encounter when he starts to walk. Or...............
maybe you were thinking of actually just wrapping the toe and not the entire foot. If that is the case, I can see where I would need help.
Oh, and yes I am very excited about the egg........

Of course that brings with it a whole new set of worries, will it freeze, will she break it, should I take them and hold them until there is a whole clutch, and so forth? You get the picture.

 

[Miss Lydia]

Yes, I don't feel good at all about separating them. I was considering as a last ditch effort, but even at that I agree with you about the stress. I know how Kate can get if she's just confined longer than she thinks she should be and that's with Will in with her. She almost tries to climb the wire and it would only be worse if they were separated. I had been thinking about wrapping it, but I figured they'd be pickin' at that immediately. I've never seen anything like these guys for wanting to mess with, pick at and generally tear stuff up like they do, particularly Kate. I think I can wrap his foot by myself if I can just figure out how to do it. How do I make the allowance for the folding and spreading of the foot? I've got all the stuff you mentioned, plenty of gauze, vetwrap and salve, I just can't see the mechanics of it. Do I wrap it as he's standing on it to spread it out or try wrapping while it's folded. The later doesn't seem to me that it would work very well because of the problems he would encounter when he starts to walk. Or...............
maybe you were thinking of actually just wrapping the toe and not the entire foot. If that is the case, I can see where I would need help.
Oh, and yes I am very excited about the egg........

Of course that brings with it a whole new set of worries, will it freeze, will she break it, should I take them and hold them until there is a whole clutch, and so forth? You get the picture.

Being this is their first year you may not want her sitting, but if you decided then just leave the eggs and hope she will, she'll gather a clutch before she starts, my goose has laid 15 eggs so far [her first year] and hasn't acted the least bit interested, although i take her egg each time she never goes back to visit where she lays them. So just because they lay doesn't mean they will brood. But from all i have read it seems it's really best to let them wait till their 2nd year for goslings. They live a long time so I guess they need a little maturity under those feathers. as far as wrapping it may keep her from actually biting his toe long enough to break the habit she has gotten into. seems I saw somewhere how to wrap a foot so I'll look it up. I'm sure they would probably manage to get it off thats why I. said numerous times but maybe it would only take a few days to break her, and going a ways up the leg may help hold it on better too. Not sure if the eggs would freeze but if she is like my girl they will be covered well. I haven't found a frozen egg yet from any of my flock chickens/ducks or geese. even when it went into 20's .they cover them well.

 

[CelticOaksFarm]

Buff Americans and other production breeds like the production toulouse are fine to hatch clutches as one year olds. Its the heavey breeds who "some" say shouldnt be permitted to brood their first year.

 

[lilcrow]

Being this is their first year you may not want her sitting, but if you decided then just leave the eggs and hope she will, she'll gather a clutch before she starts, my goose has laid 15 eggs so far [her first year] and hasn't acted the least bit interested, although i take her egg each time she never goes back to visit where she lays them. So just because they lay doesn't mean they will brood. But from all i have read it seems it's really best to let them wait till their 2nd year for goslings. They live a long time so I guess they need a little maturity under those feathers. as far as wrapping it may keep her from actually biting his toe long enough to break the habit she has gotten into. seems I saw somewhere how to wrap a foot so I'll look it up. I'm sure they would probably manage to get it off thats why I. said numerous times but maybe it would only take a few days to break her, and going a ways up the leg may help hold it on better too. Not sure if the eggs would freeze but if she is like my girl they will be covered well. I haven't found a frozen egg yet from any of my flock chickens/ducks or geese. even when it went into 20's .they cover them well.

Well, I think I'd rather take the eggs in light of what has been going on with Will, it sounds like just too much stress all the way around. I don't know if I want to incubate the eggs or not, I know I don't ever want to brood ducks again. My incubation and brooding is set up for chickens and ducklings and chicks don't mix well, their needs are just too different. I'm guessing that goslings would be the same as ducks only more so. But oh my goodness wouldn't they be cute. Considering how gentle and puppy dog like these guys are I would think that human raised Buff goslings would be nearly impossible to shake.
Now on to the toe, I washed it again this morning and put the antibiotic salve on it. When I let them out of the run, he was not limping..............yet. It's probably just a matter of time until she grabs his poor foot. In the mean time, I'll keep my fingers crossed that you find the wrapping article.

 

[Miss Lydia]

Well, I think I'd rather take the eggs in light of what has been going on with Will, it sounds like just too much stress all the way around. I don't know if I want to incubate the eggs or not, I know I don't ever want to brood ducks again. My incubation and brooding is set up for chickens and ducklings and chicks don't mix well, their needs are just too different. I'm guessing that goslings would be the same as ducks only more so. But oh my goodness wouldn't they be cute. Considering how gentle and puppy dog like these guys are I would think that human raised Buff goslings would be nearly impossible to shake.
Now on to the toe, I washed it again this morning and put the antibiotic salve on it. When I let them out of the run, he was not limping..............yet. It's probably just a matter of time until she grabs his poor foot. In the mean time, I'll keep my fingers crossed that you find the wrapping article.

Hi lilcrow, hows Will's toe? were you able with Iains help figure out what to do for him?

 

[lilcrow]

Well, Iains said to wash it only, don't put the antibiotic ointment on it and don't bandage it. I've been wash/soaking it twice a day anyway. Kate just keeps grabbing that poor foot every time they begin to breed. (sigh)

 

[Miss Lydia]

Well, Iains said to wash it only, don't put the antibiotic ointment on it and don't bandage it. I've been wash/soaking it twice a day anyway. Kate just keeps grabbing that poor foot every time they begin to breed. (sigh)

That was the only reason for me saying to wrap it. to keep her from doing this, if he just had a wound and nothing was keeping it open then I'd say just keep it clean and leave it alone but when Kate keeps grabbing it and opening it back up, it's never going to heal up, so I am thinking wrapping it is your only option to try and break her habit of doing this. I looked all over the internet for a pic of wrapping, since I couldn't get on BYC till this morning I had plenty of time.

Anyway, you could try just wrapping the toe but going up the foot onto the leg to hold it in place. or you could fashion a shoe out of hard card board or something else ridged then wrap the entire foot. My thinking is she won't like the feel of the vet wrap and hopefully will stop. you'll never know till you try.

 

[Miss Lydia]

lilcrow any update on Will?

 

[lilcrow]

Hummm.......for some reason I didn't see your post of two days ago?????????? Don't know what happened with that. Anyway, I've been watching them pretty close and it appears that Will has figured out a way around the foot grabbing thing. He is approaching her from the other side, and she doesn't grab his foot from that angle. This morning he went to get on and made the mistake of going at it from the original position and she got his foot. They were right under me as I was running water from the hydrant, so I reached down to put my hand between her and his foot. It threw her off enough that she forgot about his foot, thank goodness. I watched him off and on all day and I didn't see him limp even once. I washed it and checked this evening and I didn't see much change in the appearance, I think it's just better because it didn't look like it hurt him as much.
I have gathered the eggs, mainly because I have been afraid they would freeze or she would break them. She laid another one this afternoon, but I didn't get to it. I'll collect it tomorrow and hope that it is OK, I don't think it's suppose to get as cold as the last few nights. That will make 4 eggs. Do you incubate, and if so what temp and how long?
Oh I almost forgot, Will definitely has demonstrated his changed disposition. He was on the back porch when I stepped out the door with the dogs and the border collies and heeler go out on their own, but the little pekingese mix always needs to be on a long line. He's a real stinker and always wants to chase the ducks and geese and doesn't read their threatening postures. Well, I think he understands Will's lingo a little better now. Will got a hold of him and I had to pull him off of Lucky. Lucky was lucky, he didn't get hurt as bad as he could have, there was no blood, but clearly Will means business and doesn't want the dogs around Kate.