Installing 4x4s - Concrete? Spikes?

[F106A]

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Great tip! Thanks!

Mark

 

[patandchickens]

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The spikes are ok for weenies

or if you are seriously incapable of digging a hole, or expect to have to remove the thing *soon*.

They are not a great idea otherwise IMHO. Expensive, they rust (no matter what the mfr says), somewhat PITA to get in straight, and not as secure as a hole.

Better to just set the p/t post in a 3' hole in the ground with the dirt well tamped in around it (tamp every 4-6" while refilling the hole, and try to 'crown' it a little around the post).

DO NOT SET POSTS IN CEMENT -- that is not your alternative to the spikes, your alternative is to just set the pressure-treated 4x4 nekkid in a hole in the ground. Really, it lasts longer that way, it is WAY less work and less expense, and it is far easier to remove if someday you need to, without being ANY less secure against forces like wind and lawnmowers.

JMHO, good luck, have fun,

Pat

 

[F106A]

Well, one advantage I see is less cost in wood. You don't have to buy longer lengths in order to bury it in the ground. As far as the unit costs, they seem reasonable to me, but I understand others may not. Provided one has the know-how to plumb and level, they are set in solid ground, and the posts are properly cross-braced, that should make up for a lack of hole digging skills. I am convinced that any wood above ground will last longer than the portion of wood under ground; whether set in concrete or not.

The more I think about them, the more I like the idea.

Mark

 

[patandchickens]

Posts will start rotting where they sit in the collar of those spikes, too, though. And it MATTERS more than when they rot in the ground. So it is not clear to me, having used and been around both a fair bit, that the spikes give you any better longevity -- if anything it is the opposite.

And, cost-wise, I don't know what prices are like in other peoples' areas, but around here the cost of an extra 3' of post is equal to or less than the cost of good-quality fence spikes.

Pat

 

[2DogsCoop]

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Cool idea, send me pics when you get started!

 

[F106A]

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Will do! Thanks for the support!

Mark

 

[F106A]

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Do you have any hard data on that? If so, I would be very interested. Sure, everything rusts, everything corrodes, and nothing lasts forever, but you seem to be very anti-spike so I'd like to see the data. As I stated in my original post, my "warm-and-fuzzy" meter has yet to go off.

Mark

 

[patandchickens]

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Do you have any hard data on that? If so, I would be very interested. Sure, everything rusts, everything corrodes, and nothing lasts forever, but you seem to be very anti-spike so I'd like to see the data. As I stated in my original post, my "warm-and-fuzzy" meter has yet to go off.

I'm not sure what kind of "hard data" you realistically expect. Talk to agricultural (not suburban) fencing contractors if you want a second opinion, they will tell you the same thing.

I've been around a looooot of fences in my 46 years of life, built and repaired a bunch too, and I'm telling you what I've seen. You needn't believe it if you don't want. I'm just making the information available to you.

I am not "very anti-spike". They are handy in a pinch if you happen to have some lying around; also handy for a fence that is likely to have to be removed within 10 years or so.

They do not, however, handle wind-loads nearly as well as setting the post 3-4' into the ground. And it is real common for the post to rot where it sits in the collar of the spike so that the bolts or nails or whatever you've used no longer have sound wood to attach to, and the post can be shoved over (by wind, by a lawn tractor backing up, whatever) and just breaks out of the spike collar. This happens at a younger age than an equivalent p/t 4x4 would typically rot off at ground level.

I'm just telling you what I see. <shrug> Your "warm and fuzzy" meter is your problem, not mine LOL

Pat

 

[7L Farm]

Yes, I'm hijacking. Since everyone's on the subject. Here's my problem. I'm building a new coop & installed 4 post in concrete. Now I have decided that I want to put a deck above the run. My problem is I need to add another post but as seen in the picture one post is to short. How to add another post? I can't dig next to the existing post because its cemented in the ground. Should I put the other post next to the existing post & through bolt it to the other post. Will it be strong enough to hold me & others on the top? Are is there a better way? If your not following what I'm typing this may clarify what I want. I want a platform above the run. The platform will have a ladder attched to it for veiwing the land.

 

[patandchickens]

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First question, have you figured out what post support specs you NEED for the deck you're planning. (I.e. are your current 4x4 posts enough, at their existing spacing, or do you need additional 4x4 posts or larger or what). It depends on the deck size and load.

IF your problem is simply that you want to put a deck beam on top of the existing 4x4 but also want that existing 4x4 to stick up further, here are your most obvious (good) choices IMO:

Either attach a STRONG WELL-MADE chock on the side of the existing 4x4 (meaning, at least a coupla feet long and attached with a bunch of good large p/t-compatible fasteners throughout its length) in order to put the beam on, and also bolt thru beam+4x4;

or alternatively, lop the existing 4x4 off at desired level, put the deck beam atop it with suitable hardware or wooden chocks to keep it from slipping off, then sister in another piece of wood (it could even serve as one of the wooden chocks in this case) that extends upwards to support your upper run fencing or deck railing or whatever.

But you GOT to make sure you have the engineering of the deck figured out first... don't just eyeball-and-guess. There are tables you can look at for these things, look up what deck size and span and so forth and it will tell you what sort of post support options you can get away with. Look in good "DIY deck building" books, or I would think that google could turn something up online.

Good luck, have fun,

Pat