Integration is going awful

[Imachickenmama]

Help!!!! I recently got two lavender Orpington pullets. 20 weeks or so. They are huge. And a roo. He joined my flock of 8 with no problems. The girls love him. However, if they are allowed near the new girls they will all gang up on them relentlessly, the rooster even joined in I have tried to introduce them to just a couple at a time . It goes horrible every time. It's not the normal show each other who's boss. I think they will actually kill them. It's brutal. I've integrated chickens, and it's always been ugly , but this is a while new level. I don't know what to do. The rooster sleeps with the new girls , then joins the old girls in the am. They have been side by side for a month.
Do I need to get more hens so there is less focus on just the two?
Take the roo out completely?
Make many chicken time outs?
Any help would be appreciated.
Our old flock consist of 2 Reds, 2 Barred, 2 Orpingtons, 2 silver laced wynadotte.

 

[aart]

Important parts of the 'basics':
Multiple feed/water stations. Dominance issues are most often carried out over sustenance, more stations lessens the frequency of that issue.

Places for the new birds to hide 'out of line of sight'(but not a dead end trap) and/or up and away from any bully birds. Roosts, pallets or boards leaned up against walls or up on concrete blocks, old chairs tables, branches, logs, stumps out in the run can really help. Lots of diversion and places to 'hide' instead of bare wide open run.

 

[FishMtFarm]

Today I put some of what I thought were the lower girls. I'm thinking maybe the one that was so awful to her is may be now at the top of the pecking order with the roo here. But my attempts with the other lower girls have been awful.
We have a fenced run that is about 500 sq ft, with a barn connected that's about 300 sq ft. So that whole space is available to all of them. That's the space I've been trying to introduce them in. My chickens normally just free range. But the new girls are scared to death of people and have spent a week in bushes before we could catch them again. So they are in a space the two of them in the barn.

The lowest girls on the totem pole will be the most aggressive as they don’t want to be the lowest so that definately won’t work.

 

[aart]

The new girls will try to hide and end up in a dead end corner where they stick their head and the bullies are on their back pulling feathers out.

That's why hide outs should not create 'dead ends'.

 

[azygous]

The article I linked to in my first post may be about integrating a single hen, but the principle applies to any number of new, younger birds.

Chickens have different temperaments, some bold, some timid, others easy going and accepting. A lot of this temperament depends on genes or breed.

Timid younger chickens pose the biggest challenge because they are easily discouraged by the home flock being aggressive toward them. This is why I take integration very gradually.

I begin with the new chickens being in a protected enclosure which is completely visible to the flock. After a few days, the newcomers get a short period of mingling with the flock. After the first pecking order incident, the newbies are put back into their protected enclosure before they can get discouraged.

I do this each day for around three weeks, extending the length of time the new girls mingle with the flock a bit more every day. Each time, they go back into their protected pen when the interaction threatens to discourage the new girls.

The reason I do it this way is because throwing the newcomers into the flock too soon can erode their self confidence, and a timid chicken is more likely to believe herself a victim. This causes her to behave as a victim which starts a vicious cycle of bullying, rendering the timid chicken into a chronic victim.

When you understand that it's normal for new, younger chickens to be afraid of the chickens in a new flock, and if you watch them withdrawing into a corner out of self defense and terror, you might be able to see how this can become a chronic problem if not taken slowly and carefully.

Some flock keepers here do toss new chickens into the flock to figure it out on their own, and it can sometimes work out okay. But when you do this to timid chickens, they may never successfully integrate, and there's the chance you will have a flock with constant conflict, and worse case scenario is a mangled chicken or a dead one. Having a peaceful flock is worth the extra trouble in my view.

 

[proudmommie31]

I’ve rearranged the coop on an existing flock before, added new roosting levels and/or changed their positions. They were so busy scrambling to reclaim all the best positions they weren’t all that interested in the “newbies” after that.

 

[azygous]

When you got the two newest chickens, did you simply toss them into the existing flock? Or did you gradually allow them all to become acquainted with a see-through barrier separating them?

Being younger, yet full grown, the new ones are naturally wary and a little fearful of the home flock. The home flock, at the same time, view the new girls as foreign invaders, and it's normal for them to make it clear to the newcomers that they are lower than the dirt they all walk on. They are all behaving predictably.

If you didn't expose the two groups to one another via a see-through barrier, it's time to go back to the starting point and do it right. When I introduce a new adult chicken to the flock, I give it a three-week gradual process, letting the new girl sleep in the coop at night since that speeds up the process. Chickens are not very likely to gang up on a newbie after they are all trying to settle in for the night.

Here's a write-up of how I go about introducing a newcomer. https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/introducing-a-single-hen-to-an-existing-flock.71997/ It includes all of the good, the bad, and the ugly, but in the end, everyone accepts the new girl.

 

[Imachickenmama]

Nope. They weren't tossed in. I waited 3 weeks before any attempts. They could see each other at all times. And sleep about 3 inches apart from each other.

When you got the two newest chickens, did you simply toss them into the existing flock? Or did you gradually allow them all to become acquainted with a see-through barrier separating them?

Being younger, yet full grown, the new ones are naturally wary and a little fearful of the home flock. The home flock, at the same time, view the new girls as foreign invaders, and it's normal for them to make it clear to the newcomers that they are lower than the dirt they all walk on. They are all behaving predictably.

If you didn't expose the two groups to one another via a see-through barrier, it's time to go back to the starting point and do it right. When I introduce a new adult chicken to the flock, I give it a three-week gradual process, letting the new girl sleep in the coop at night since that speeds up the process. Chickens are not very likely to gang up on a newbie after they are all trying to settle in for the night.

Here's a write-up of how I go about introducing a newcomer. https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/introducing-a-single-hen-to-an-existing-flock.71997/ It includes all of the good, the bad, and the ugly, but in the end, everyone accepts the new girl.

 

[aart]

They have been side by side for a month.

Try putting one of the old flock, the 'nicest' one, into the new girls pen.
See how that goes, if it doesn't work try a different one.
Idea is to get some of them to 'bond'....then integrate them all.
Chicken Juggling!

Do they all free range together...or are they all confined??
How big is your coop(s) and run(s)?
Dimensions and pics would help.

 

[andreanar]

Do they free range?