Internal Layers and Other Egg Issues....Will this never end?? LONG

[mikarod]

I never withhold food and water. Only decrease the daylight hours.

speckledhen, I know how the production birds are. I worked with them on research issues.

It just looks more like the tract is causing the issues rather than the follicle itself. The large things that are coming from her look like what you would say..."meat spots" in an egg. However, the "meat spots" are actually as large or bigger than an egg.

Meat spots are caused by parts of the ovary or the lining of the tract sloughing off into the egg. Looks to me...like your birds have an overabundance of "slough" coming off and it's clogging the tract and preventing the follicles from forming.

 

[speckledhen]

The reason I said it's egg material was because others have found a definite yolk inside the mass before. I guess whatever it actually is, it's the same for all four of my deceased hens and I expect that my BR who is currently doing this will be gone before the end of the year. And I dont supplement their light so they are getting only 11 hours as it is now. In the commercial forced molts, at least the ones I've read about, they withhold food and water for a certain period, too. BUT, mine are already molting, yet, for the most part, still laying.
Honestly, though I've tried to see what could be done here to prevent this, I'm sure there isn't now. This is from their genetics, IMO, not external forces at work. People raise their birds in filth with dirty waterers and cracked corn as their only feed and they are not seeing these issues anymore than I am. How could the best feed, dry, draft-free housing, clean water, fresh air, exercise and sunshine cause this? The obvious answer is that it cannot. So, this discussion has been beneficial for me. I've gone over all the points everyone has made and just cannot see how I could have done any better by them, other than to give five birds hysterectomies, which isn't feasible.
At least with the pictures of what we found inside these hens, someone else will know what to look for if they do a layman's necropsy, which was my main point in posting them. Thanks for all your sincere condolences. Let's just hope that I'm seeing the end of this in 2008.

 

[WoodlandWoman]

I can't add anything helpful to this discussion. I just wanted to say how sorry I am to hear that you are having more trouble. I know you do everything you can for your birds and that you love them dearly. This is so heartbreaking. I hope the day will come when all the hens you have that are at the highest risk for this have gotten past it, one way or another and that you only have healthy, happy chickens at your house.

 

[speckledhen]

I hope the day will come when all the hens you have that are at the highest risk for this have gotten past it, one way or another and that you only have healthy, happy chickens at your house.

Me, too!

 

[ScottsSilkies]

I want to tell all who have lost their precious hens to this awful condition how sorry I am for your loss and also to the poor hens who have had to live and die with this condition, it makes my heart hurt with sadness for what people have caused with their Genetic Modifications to animals.

I realize this post is dated 2008.

I am reading it now because I have a hen with what I thought was water belly and am seeking help.
After reading many of the posts I am now thinking I have this same problem with my hen.
The dates seem to coincide. Things are matching up.
I see too much coincidences with the problems that are happening with our hatchery chicks in close to the same years.

In April 2007 we bought hatchery chicks, gold comets and buff orpingtons from our local feed store.
If memory serves correctly that was the last year the feed store sold hatchery chicks because of all the avian flu problems and new regulations that went into place. They said it just became too difficult and costly to conform to the new rules.

All but one of these chicks we bought died in 2 to 3 years of age. I felt sure the comets died because of being egg bound. One of the orpingtons was full of fluid in her belly and we drained her twice. She got better each time, but the last time it came back she died. Of the two buff orpingtons we bought, one was huge and one was on the small side. We never understood why they were so different from each other. The huge one got water belly and died. The small one lived until 2012, and only died because a dog killed her, she was 5 years old.
We have had chicks hatched from the orpingtons that also died as young adults and it all related to egg laying problems.
Now that I think about it, of all the eggs we hatched off the orpingtons - there were no boys hatched.
I thought we were just lucky, now I'm not so sure.
The orpingtons hated to be mated by the rooster, an Ameracauna (not hatchery stock).
They would stay on top of the chicken pen for days at the time.
Not even come down for food or drink. The rooster was re-homed, hoping that would solve the problem.
I thought the swollen belly problem was being caused by being mated by the rooster.

I also stopped feeding the layer feed, thinking it was causing over-production on the poor hens egg systems.
I think changing feeds did help to an extent. I changed to an all grain feed with no wheat.
No processed pellets or crumbles.

The only chick I got from the gold comets just happens to be this hen that is sick right now.
She's never been sick with anything, until now. She was the 1st egg we hatched, either 2007 or 2008.
So she's either 4 or 5 years old. Her dad was the Ameracauna rooster that the hens hated so much.

I think I still have 3 hens off the big orpington that had water belly or as I think now was most likely this internal laying.
I hate to even think we might have to go through this again.

I have not been happy with the fact that all these hens have died so young. I've always kept my chickens
for years and years.
You kinda blame yourself, but still don't know what you could have done differently to change the outcome.
At least reading these posts that have been so graciously shared with us, helps us to better understand
what might be going on. The only thing we could have done differently is not buy any hatchery chicks.
But that is as they say 'hind-sight'.

The previous group of hatchery chicks I had were RIR, purchased 2003 or earlier.
Can't say for sure, but I think most of them lived about 5 or 6 years. They did die of old age, but
I kinda felt like they should have lived a little longer. Not any egg laying issues that I recall.

So something for sure has changed between 2003 and 2007.
The avian flu scare was going on during part of this time. What might have been done to the chickens?

The chicken processing plant is a several miles west of us. Many times the chickens on the way to the plant have fallen off the chicken truck and we have rescued them from the middle of the highway and the road ditches. If they weren't too broken up or skinned up and lived, they lived a good long time. But now, they are so genetically modified when you pick them up, they are so huge, but when they cheep, you can tell they are young babies. Heart-breaking. They have been genetically changed for their bodies to grow very fast and yet not live long. They die of old age, very young.
Wonder what that modification is doing to us when we eat store bought chicken?

Some modifications must have taken place in the egg layers as well. They are now dying young as well,
but a horrible painful death. I wonder what the modifications have done to the eggs that we eat?
What will eating the eggs do to us in the long run?

How many people have been through this, and do not have a clue what they are dealing with?
I did not know either, until tonight. Now I see it is a bigger problem than I knew. It's not just a problem
I am having, but it's all over and in many states. Going on for years.
I am not happy and do not approve of any of this animal modification business.
I would not swap my hen's long life just to get a few more eggs.
Even when they get old and quit laying, they are still considered family and live out their natural lives with us.

We bought gold comets and a few bantams from Tractor Supply last March (2012). Now I am very worried we have
bought ourselves more trouble. I guess only time will tell.

Anyway, just sharing this info in hopes that it might help someone else. Reading these old posts sure has helped me.

SpeckledHen - I share your pain.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Just to be clear. "Modification" is a word usually applied to genetic modification through gene splicing or other genetic modification. The only thing that has been done to the birds is selection. That's it. Lots of research? Yes, as poultry is a multi trillion dollar, international enterprise. But modification" No. Not in that sense.

The CX type commercial broiler is simply the result of selective breeding for over 30 years. It has produced a freakishly fast maturing, large breasted bird.
On the layer side, selective breeding and crossing has produced these fast maturing, heavy laying birds with great feed conversion properties.

As all these birds have been pushed and pushed for faster growth, earlier point of lay and heavier lay, there is a longevity price to be paid for this "progress".

The vast majority of hatchery birds, regardless of breed (although not bred up to true type) have been selectively bred for higher and higher laying. This increase in laying benefits the hatcheries with higher profits and the consumer wants eggs, eggs and more eggs.

Not a few people have noticed the correlation between the result of this push for more eggs and the consequences on reproductive health.