International Black Copper Marans Thread - Breeding to the SOP

[Chooks man]

Saved cockerel #2

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Same thing with this guy very narrow thigh . How I did not see that early in a selection .
Hope LS and MS son s don t have this problem.
Stay with me in this one please no culling for a white or the tail we are trying to fix the body type first it is fundamental there is no point of fixing any traits if the body type is wrong.
Watch this young chicks from the front and from the back see how they stand
I have highlighted in a previous post about LS sons . I said that is the type of chicks I select , thick legs , straight with a wide spacing .
Chooks man

 

[Chooks man]

Those are bad legs
Chooks man

 

[Chooks man]

This one is better but still narrow at the thigh
This cockerel could only bred to a specific hen/ hens with a straight / wide spaced legs and well developed abdomen.
Have a look and see if any of your hens fit this description
Chooks man

 

[Punkybrewster]

Every thing is good about him not his legs spacing too narrow like his sire JR
It is just in a photo or he is narrow around thigh area?
Chooks man

He is narrow.

 

[Punkybrewster]

Same thing with this guy very narrow thigh . How I did not see that early in a selection .
Hope LS and MS son s don t have this problem.
Stay with me in this one please no culling for a white or the tail we are trying to fix the body type first it is fundamental there is no point of fixing any traits if the body type is wrong.
Watch this young chicks from the front and from the back see how they stand
I have highlighted in a previous post about LS sons . I said that is the type of chicks I select , thick legs , straight with a wide spacing .
Chooks man

They looked good for so long and I was culling for bad legs, narrow bodies.
#2's copper is not good either. It is more of an orange color due to so much white in the hackles.

You would think, out of all those cockerels I grew out, there would be at least 1 good one. Ugh.

So we will wait and see how LS and MS sons are

 

[Punkybrewster]

View attachment 3552615
This one is better but still narrow at the thigh
This cockerel could only bred to a specific hen/ hens with a straight / wide spaced legs and well developed abdomen.
Have a look and see if any of your hens fit this description
Chooks man

I would think Moonshine would work but as we have seen, she produces better pullets.

I will go out today and look.

 

[Punkybrewster]

I have several hens with very high tails.
I brought in a low tailed cockerel to fix this fault and did well but messed up by not selecting only low tailed pullets.

There were a lot of squirrel tailed cockerels this year because of this.

 

[Chooks man]

They looked good for so long and I was culling for bad legs, narrow bodies.
#2's copper is not good either. It is more of an orange color due to so much white in the hackles.

You would think, out of all those cockerels I grew out, there would be at least 1 good one. Ugh.

So we will wait and see how LS and MS sons are

that mean JR has pass down his bad genes to his sons . he is not what we thought he is .
or the combination of him the hens he was matted to was nor compatable ,
I always say and do ,knowing the sire and the dam of the progeny we are hatching so we can traace which combination is yielding good cockerels ,or good pullets or nothing at all .

some time we run into a dominant breeder .maybe JR was dominant over all the hens ,he did not let they genes express them selves ,especially the Autossome genes .. leg traits are autossome not sex linked .

let see what MS is going to give us , she seem to be dominant on the sex linkled gens ,maybe by chance she will over power him .

chooks man

 

[Chooks man]

I would think Moonshine would work but as we have seen, she produces better pullets.

I will go out today and look.

I have hope in her for sure ,
maybe we need to do some back crossing to the hens in the future to change the genomic combination on your cockerels traits .every thing is possible as long as know what we are looking for and what is the quality of ours breeders .
it is a reason I take note and I do different combination to see what work and what does not .
we study this young group you have nd we can determine what LS and MS have to offer .
chooks man

 

[Punkybrewster]

that mean JR has pass down his bad genes to his sons . he is not what we thought he is .
or the combination of him the hens he was matted to was nor compatable ,
I always say and do ,knowing the sire and the dam of the progeny we are hatching so we can traace which combination is yielding good cockerels ,or good pullets or nothing at all .

some time we run into a dominant breeder .maybe JR was dominant over all the hens ,he did not let they genes express them selves ,especially the Autossome genes .. leg traits are autossome not sex linked .

let see what MS is going to give us , she seem to be dominant on the sex linkled gens ,maybe by chance she will over power him .

chooks man

This would make sense.
I could not figure out why so many grow outs were so bad. Jr did not look so terrible but he did not pass down anything good.