International Black Copper Marans Thread - Breeding to the SOP

[KF0002]

you are mixing the blade of the comb to the posterior lobe of the comb
the Blade of the comb is what is between the points base and the base of the comb . other world . the middle long part of the comb .the part that give support .

Gideon s ( love the name .you are picking up very well ) comb has a good blabe not too thin neither too thick . no bent at the front S .
what are you thinking is a blade of the comb is actually the Lobe of the comb and what you think of as a 6 points is actually part of the lobe and is a split . here is a problem we are facing = for the French SOP Gideon has a show quality comb .the split lobe is not a disqualification ,the double point - see my Tobambezi comb - is a disqualification ,double point at the upper part of the Lobe . for the French the upper part of the Lobe of Gideon is long and clean supporting it self straight and high from the head .
the French don t want the double point at the part or the double point at the rear and side of the Lobe ( Coronation comb etc...............)
the points you missed ,the first one, where the end of the front of comb end there is a small point in there and there is a clear spacing between it at the point you think is 1 ( that is #2).Still for the French the number of the point is not important as long as they are well serrated and equally proportioned along the blade of the comb .

the US SOP call for a clean lobe free from any dent of point and need 5 points .
Gideon comb will causes a lot split decisions . some will say the is 6 points counting the first point you misted .and the Lobe is split . Others judges will see it the way you saw it .

For me as a marans breeders .Gideon comb is correct for breeding and will yield a show quality birds by any standard . just need to select to hen with a clean shaped ,lifted back of her comb ( lobe ),that all . one pairing close to greatness .

Agree with you Gideon is you best cockerel on comb and should be your main sire for that trait .mated to one of your pullet with a nice comb and start you show quality comb line . even if they have other fault .

Comb are autossome .inherited from both parents .never forget that .
work in each trait separately and breed it true .

chooks man

Thank you for all the great info! Combs have been the most difficult part of the SOP for me. It makes sense now that you've explained it. I get confused on what are actually points especially when the posterior lobe of the comb is split the way Gideons is. Im really hope he balances out the horrible combs of Gretta and Gretchen in their offspring.

 

[KF0002]

he is gorgeous .love his body type ,his long flat back and his great tail angle you where looking to improve .Forget about the comb .you can not fix every thing in one pairing .
you should be very ,very proud about fixing the tail angle just working with your chooks ( didn t go crazy and bought eggs from the net )
trust your self and do thing the way you are all ready doing them . great results are appearing .

Bravo .

chooks man

Thank you!! Im glad to be seeing improvement in the back length and tail angle.

I am going to probably have to go ahead and pen him up. I dont want to lose him. Our new GP pup has already injured 1 young Cream Legbar cockerel and killed another today. I expect to lose birds during his training process.. its a small price to pay to train a good LGD but I dont want to lose my important birds. We are supervising him with the chickens for now because he is too rough with them when he "plays". The pup gets put in a kennel when we are not outside but when we are out working and feeding its difficult to keep eyes on him constantly. Training pups is a chore..

 

[Chooks man]

Thank you!! Im glad to be seeing improvement in the back length and tail angle.

I am going to probably have to go ahead and pen him up. I dont want to lose him. Our new GP pup has already injured 1 young Cream Legbar cockerel and killed another today. I expect to lose birds during his training process.. its a small price to pay to train a good LGD but I dont want to lose my important birds. We are supervising him with the chickens for now because he is too rough with them when he "plays". The pup gets put in a kennel when we are not outside but when we are out working and feeding its difficult to keep eyes on him constantly. Training pups is a chore..

go and do that .it is a great idea .don t loose him please .

chooks man

 

[Chooks man]

Well, I found a couple of surprises when I checked the nest boxes today. Unfortunately, I don’t have an egg weight scale - I need to fix that!

The large green egg on top I’m not sure about - I’ll let ChooksMan comment on that.

The super jumbo egg (almost turkey egg sized) was laid by a BLCM Pullet (Poor Girl )! The color, shape and sheen are lacking IMO. I’ll give her more time to see what she produces over time before I decide if I’ll breed her.

The second egg was laid by a BCM Pullet - I like the color, size, shape and sheen. This Pullet has good mass and a nice small thin pointed tail - her comb is horrid (flopped, crooked and uneven points) and she lacks a full copper hackle but what she does have is more mahogany. I’ll breed her just for the egg color, mass and tail.

The third (fart) egg was laid by Andalina a BLCM Pullet. She’s been laying for a couple months and normally lays a nice large egg with good color (#6 sometimes #7), shape and sheen. Not sure why she laid an egg this small but it’s dark! Andalina has excellent mass, Nice thin pointed tail, and somewhat decent hackle color. Her comb is neither great or horrible. I’ll breed this girl for the egg color, mass and tail.

All three of these pullets are the progeny of Briscoe BCM Cock and Charlene Splash Hen.

View attachment 1194719

Take Care All,
Keith

wow the small one is stunning .doesn t get more darker than that . the mama hen is a breeder of first class .
the green one is very large and rare .i think you need to breed it out .ha hahaaaaa.

very nice work my friend

Briscoe for sure he carries the dark egg gene .

chooks man

 

[chickengr]

Thank you!! Im glad to be seeing improvement in the back length and tail angle.

I am going to probably have to go ahead and pen him up. I dont want to lose him. Our new GP pup has already injured 1 young Cream Legbar cockerel and killed another today. I expect to lose birds during his training process.. its a small price to pay to train a good LGD but I dont want to lose my important birds. We are supervising him with the chickens for now because he is too rough with them when he "plays". The pup gets put in a kennel when we are not outside but when we are out working and feeding its difficult to keep eyes on him constantly. Training pups is a chore..

I don't know anything about training dogs but I wouldn't put a young puppy with chickens. I would do the same thing as introducing a new flock member: watch (through the wire) but don't touch.

young puppies are like young children who can go to school when 6-7 years old. so your puppy should have preschool training first. especially because they are large breed. you can put him with chickens for about 30 minutes a day when you are right next to him. at his age it should be plenty. please don't loose your beautiful birds in vain.

 

[KF0002]

Zanitta's first egg she laid yesterday. Weighed 54 grams.

 

[KF0002]

I don't know anything about training dogs but I wouldn't put a young puppy with chickens. I would do the same thing as introducing a new flock member: watch (through the wire) but don't touch.

young puppies are like young children who can go to school when 6-7 years old. so your puppy should have preschool training first. especially because they are large breed. you can put him with chickens for about 30 minutes a day when you are right next to him. at his age it should be plenty. please don't loose your beautiful birds in vain.

Luckily the birds I lost were probably going to end up being culls anyway. I have tons of cream legbar cockerels free ranging and I have no need for them all. Thank goodness he didnt get one of my Marans.

He was around chickens from birth before we got him so he doesnt bother the adult chickens, but he loves to chase and play with the smaller young birds free ranging. He's just a pup and he thinks everything is a toy. I will just have to keep a closer eye on him around the young birds. We raise our LGD's right up with the chickens but pups are not allowed free access to the chickens. Only when we are out with them. It was my own fault he got the two legbar cockerels, I should have been watching him better. But it was a good learning opportunity for him. We caught him in the act and corrected him. He will learn. We have trained many LGD's and it takes a lot of work. Thirty minutes a day just isnt enough exposure. They need to feel like the chickens are their flock and be around them as much as possible. They aren't born knowing what to guard and protect but the natural instinct is there and once they learn their job they are worth their weight in gold.

 

[Chooks man]

Zanitta's first egg she laid yesterday. Weighed 54 grams.

View attachment 1195031

Ah Zanitta s is well dotted . the gene is there .very good .I like that

chooks man

 

[Chooks man]

Thank you for all the great info! Combs have been the most difficult part of the SOP for me. It makes sense now that you've explained it. I get confused on what are actually points especially when the posterior lobe of the comb is split the way Gideons is. Im really hope he balances out the horrible combs of Gretta and Gretchen in their offspring.

he will trust me on this one .
comb can be fixed by both parents any way .

try to hatch pullets from this paring and mate them back to they sire Gideon to reinforce the good comb traits .

but really to fix the comb problem in your flock ,you need to mate Gideon to your pullets or hens with a best comb to start a comb line .

chooks man

 

[Chooks man]

here a photo of the marans hen body type .the old school ( the one I grow up with ) and the new type . this photo is from the book LA MARANS by SERGE DERPEZ -CHRISTIAN HERMENT.
we can see both type are similar except the old school type hen has more volume at the rear ( abdominal area) very low to the ground . sign of large egg layer 70g and over true trait of the marans hen .

chooks man