International Black Copper Marans Thread - Breeding to the SOP

[Red Banks]

Is this considered too much color?

 

[shepherd6567]

View attachment 1213165
Is this considered too much color?

I like him. I could use a rooster with that much color!

 

[Red Banks]

I like him. I could use a rooster with that much color!

Thank you! Not enough color is definitely not my problem!

 

[KF0002]

View attachment 1213165
Is this considered too much color?

In regards to showing, it may be a tad too much but that is something I have struggled to learn.. what is too much color? The standard says the breast should be "solid black or with a few copper spots, not laced." In my search to find the answer I have been advised by a breeder who shows here in the US with lots of experience that leakage should be kept to 10% or less of the breast area, but that is not a written rule and is just simply that individual's rule of thumb. She guages 10% or less as 10 spots of color in the breast feathers or less. It all boils down to the individual judge's interpretation though so I suppose its best to shoot for as minimal leakage as possible. The majority of the males I raise have too much copper in regards to show standards but those males can still be shown though and also used in the female line to produce well colored females for show. It takes trial and error and test mating individual hens to males to determine if a female is hiding too much autosomal red as chooks man said. You can have a perfectly colored male and he may still throw overcolored male offspring if the hen is hiding too much autosomal red. My overcolored males tend to have a lot of shafting in the feathers on the breast too but that is merely a fault in regards to standard and not a disqualification. Overcolored breast feathers is not a disqualification either so a little too much color in an otherwise good specimen will merely just subtract a 1/2 to 1 and a 1/2 points. Another 1/2 to 1 and a 1/2 points if there is shafting in the breast feathers also. In breed varieties that are colored "other than white," color accounts for 37 possible points out of the 100 possible overall points according to the APA's general scale of points. So in a show Antonio would lose at most 3 points if his color is "too much" and for his shafting which is a small amount of points to lose.

 

[KF0002]

I agree with you 100% .
it is my argument with a French Marans Syndicat ,to develop a cockerels and a pullets lines .will be easier to fix the traits and breed out the fault ,plus be able to produce a show quality marans .
I m doing the same thing .a each hen will have her own line . many ,many lines .

the stock we are working with a result of a out cross ,so they degree of they inheritance ( how much stable genes they ll be able to pass down to they progeny ) is very low .not predictable .

a Black copper hen is very hard to work with ,because of her Autossomal red is not apparent . we can not see it .we only see the hackle ,but that is linked to a sex linked genes not the Autossome genes .
so we don t know how much autossomal red she have ..we can tell if have have too much ( coppery chest ,coppery hears tufts ) ,but we can t tell if she has just enough .

breeding a cockerels line and a pullets lines separately will fix the problem .

you start to think like a pro Kfelton0002 .Bravo .

chooks man

PS = when we work with a marans chooks breed we need to add a Dark Egg Layer Line ( DELL) this line will be bred just for the dark eggs genes .

Thank you! I'm glad everything is starting to click and make sense. I have studied and studied the standard so that I can fine tune my "eye" when I am looking through my birds. I have a lot of work to do, but they'll get there. I appreciate you explaining that excess autosomal red of the hen can be hidden and hard to see. That really helped me to understand why Apollo was throwing such a high number of overcolored cockerels when #60 doesn't outwardly look "overcolored" and she certainly isn't mossy.

 

[KF0002]

Yes and throw in the dark eggs needed for this breed which is one of, if not the most important trait that sets this breed apart. Aye yi yi.

Yep it makes breeding good quality Marans difficult when you factor in the breed standard for show while at the same time maintaining true Marans egg color. You can create a beautiful line of show winning birds, but a bird that doesn't lay at least a 4 on the egg color scale is only a pretty bird dressed up like a Marans, and no longer a true Marans. I plan on showing both eggs and birds because the beauty of a Marans is only half of it. Their eggs are what truly makes the breed so unique, and what first sparked my passion for Marans in the beginning.

 

[marchick]

Ok, Lets shoot from the heart. I am having a difficult time figuring out where I am going with my flock. Body type is where I am starting. Also working on adding copper to my girls. I just had one of my pullets lay her first egg and I am very happy with the color. I think it's the darkest I have gotten so far. I guess I am torn between the two sets of standards being I am in the U.S. I don't know if anyone else feels this way. Me and my flock are in limbo. I am also not sure if I want to go with Black Copper. I am leaning towards Blue Copper. Any input would be awsome! Thank you!

 

[Old Man Tom]

My Marans pullets are 28 weeks old tomorrow. First pullet egg today!!! 50 grams!!! Tomorro

w is the first day of winter. One of my pullets from last year was laying at below zero temp. No heat in coup. These are one tough breed. 7 one year old hens have not started laying after there molt. A lot of plans for this spring. TOM

 

[KF0002]

Ok, Lets shoot from the heart. I am having a difficult time figuring out where I am going with my flock. Body type is where I am starting. Also working on adding copper to my girls. I just had one of my pullets lay her first egg and I am very happy with the color. I think it's the darkest I have gotten so far. I guess I am torn between the two sets of standards being I am in the U.S. I don't know if anyone else feels this way. Me and my flock are in limbo. I am also not sure if I want to go with Black Copper. I am leaning towards Blue Copper. Any input would be awsome! Thank you!

If your goal is showing poultry its best to go by the US standard. It helps that the US doesnt differ much from the French standard but the wording is different and the US standard is stricter in regard to combs. Egg color is always good to keep in the forefront of your mind too as you dont want to lose it. Type and tail set is a good place to start as it can be the most difficult to correct. To add more color to the hackles of your female offspring, pair them with a well colored male. A male with nice copper ear tufts will put good color in his offspring, as well as a male with a little copper leakage on his breast. But the copper leakage on the breast can be a double edged sword. By adding more color to your females, your males may start coming overcolored. That is something I am trying to get right also.

 

[marchick]

kfelton, I have one BC and three BLCM roosters to pick from. They are pure Bev. I know the three lighter hens not showing copper are pure Bev. I think that may be where I want to start. Not sure which roo to use with them. My BC is missing his tail feathers. Could you tell me what you think? Thank you!