International Black Copper Marans Thread - Breeding to the SOP

[Red Banks]

I thought my post might be confusing. This is Claude (Chooks man's favorite):

This is Tony2 - Antonio's son

 

[KF0002]

I thought my post might be confusing. This is Claude (Chooks man's favorite):
View attachment 1212422

This is Tony2 - Antonio's son
View attachment 1212423

Tony 2 is lovely! He has lots of copper on his chest and that will ensure well coppered offspring from him. He does look a lot like Claude!

I am going to have to work my "show" lines into 2 separate male and female lines. The male line will ensure appropriate cockerels for show without excessive chest copper (which a lot of my males have), and then a separate line that throws well colored females appropriate for show. As chooks man has said, it is difficult to get appropriate male and female show birds from the same parents. A pair of chooks that throw males with minimum chest copper (10% or less per standard) likely will throw pullets with blacker hackles and less copper. A pair that throws well colored pullet offspring will throw overcolored males according to the standard. It seems like a lot of work but we shall see I suppose.

For example: Apollo is black breasted, no copper leakage but yet his male offspring out of #60 hen is 90% overcolored so far. I can see where showing poultry can get very frustrating.

 

[Red Banks]

Tony 2 is lovely! He has lots of copper on his chest and that will ensure well coppered offspring from him. He does look a lot like Claude!

I am going to have to work my "show" lines into 2 separate male and female lines. The male line will ensure appropriate cockerels for show without excessive chest copper (which a lot of my males have), and then a separate line that throws well colored females appropriate for show. As chooks man has said, it is difficult to get appropriate male and female show birds from the same parents. A pair of chooks that throw males with minimum chest copper (10% or less per standard) likely will throw pullets with blacker hackles and less copper. A pair that throws well colored pullet offspring will throw overcolored males according to the standard. It seems like a lot of work but we shall see I suppose.

For example: Apollo is black breasted, no copper leakage but yet his male offspring out of #60 hen is 90% overcolored so far. I can see where showing poultry can get very frustrating.

This sounds like a challenge you are excited about! I know you will do well!

 

[Chooks man]

Yes.... He is better than Antonio... he has the good Antonio has to offer, mass. He really looks a lot like Claude. Claude pictures. Haven't seen that great big fan tail yet.... pray that doesn't show up!
View attachment 1212047

View attachment 1212050
I think it goes without saying that I am probably inbreeding.... but I am fairly certain that FRF only had 2 LPs. The rooster and a hen.

Thank you for taking a look. I can't wait to see what they have to offer.

Maybe you are doing inbreeding maybe not .. because you started your flock from fertile eggs from one breeder .not marked , if they where marked than will be a different story .
I think you have a outcross strain F1 progeny ,between FRF 2 strains .or could be a mix .we never know .

chooks man

 

[Chooks man]

Tony 2 is lovely! He has lots of copper on his chest and that will ensure well coppered offspring from him. He does look a lot like Claude!

I am going to have to work my "show" lines into 2 separate male and female lines. The male line will ensure appropriate cockerels for show without excessive chest copper (which a lot of my males have), and then a separate line that throws well colored females appropriate for show. As chooks man has said, it is difficult to get appropriate male and female show birds from the same parents. A pair of chooks that throw males with minimum chest copper (10% or less per standard) likely will throw pullets with blacker hackles and less copper. A pair that throws well colored pullet offspring will throw overcolored males according to the standard. It seems like a lot of work but we shall see I suppose.

For example: Apollo is black breasted, no copper leakage but yet his male offspring out of #60 hen is 90% overcolored so far. I can see where showing poultry can get very frustrating.

I agree with you 100% .
it is my argument with a French Marans Syndicat ,to develop a cockerels and a pullets lines .will be easier to fix the traits and breed out the fault ,plus be able to produce a show quality marans .
I m doing the same thing .a each hen will have her own line . many ,many lines .

the stock we are working with a result of a out cross ,so they degree of they inheritance ( how much stable genes they ll be able to pass down to they progeny ) is very low .not predictable .

a Black copper hen is very hard to work with ,because of her Autossomal red is not apparent . we can not see it .we only see the hackle ,but that is linked to a sex linked genes not the Autossome genes .
so we don t know how much autossomal red she have ..we can tell if have have too much ( coppery chest ,coppery hears tufts ) ,but we can t tell if she has just enough .

breeding a cockerels line and a pullets lines separately will fix the problem .

you start to think like a pro Kfelton0002 .Bravo .

chooks man

PS = when we work with a marans chooks breed we need to add a Dark Egg Layer Line ( DELL) this line will be bred just for the dark eggs genes .

 

[Red Banks]

Maybe you are doing inbreeding maybe not .. because you started your flock from fertile eggs from one breeder .not marked , if they where marked than will be a different story .
I think you have a outcross strain F1 progeny ,between FRF 2 strains .or could be a mix .we never know .

chooks man

I actually bought hatched chicks. Either way there is no way of knowing.

 

[Chooks man]

hi every one .today is the fifth day of the heat wive we are having down here in OZ . 37 DC today .
a problem this year is less wind ,so the night are staying hot too .
this week hatch ,a third of them died at hatching .only 22 hatched .

I had a vet today to see what is going on . she think it is a heat is causing the parents stock seeking more vitamin C . more than normal .

she gave me a B12 Complex to mix with they mash and Triple C ( Antibiotic at a small dose just for the Vitamin C 1g/1L of water 3 times a week .
I separated all the rooster from the hens/pullets to give them a break and let them chill out tell the end of the summer . I ll do few large hatch before they stop laying . good season to produce pullets .

all the roosters are grouped into 7 groups ,each group has 7 to 10 roos .outdoor so they can deal with the heat .the container coop is empty .too hot .
the hens are grouped into 7 group too . 10 to 20 in each group .all happy

chooks man

 

[Chooks man]

I actually bought hatched chicks. Either way there is no way of knowing.

I always mark the egg with a name of the hen who laid it . and send people eggs from 3 or 4 hens .same rooster .so they can start they line s . easier to work with for the new people . still line breeding but with variation .

chooks man

 

[KF0002]

This sounds like a challenge you are excited about! I know you will do well!

Thank you for having such faith in me. It is definitely very uplifting. You'll do great too! Tony 2 is living proof!

I just hope I am able to produce at least a few birds good enough to show this year that dont have any disqualifications. A challenge it is indeed. I am documenting everything for reference later on. I made an observation just this morning that is a great example of how much influence the hen has on her offsprings' combs. The majority of #60's sons have inherited her S shaped (twisted) comb. I will count to get a ballpark percentage, but out of the 7 cockerels outside when I came home from work this morning, 4 of them had S shaped combs, so greater than 50%. Its too early to tell yet if any of the pullets have twisted combs. #60 is also loaded with autosomal red.. her sons have lots of copper leakage on their chests even though their sire has none.

 

[shepherd6567]

Tony 2 is lovely! He has lots of copper on his chest and that will ensure well coppered offspring from him. He does look a lot like Claude!

I am going to have to work my "show" lines into 2 separate male and female lines. The male line will ensure appropriate cockerels for show without excessive chest copper (which a lot of my males have), and then a separate line that throws well colored females appropriate for show. As chooks man has said, it is difficult to get appropriate male and female show birds from the same parents. A pair of chooks that throw males with minimum chest copper (10% or less per standard) likely will throw pullets with blacker hackles and less copper. A pair that throws well colored pullet offspring will throw overcolored males according to the standard. It seems like a lot of work but we shall see I suppose.

For example: Apollo is black breasted, no copper leakage but yet his male offspring out of #60 hen is 90% overcolored so far. I can see where showing poultry can get very frustrating.

Yes and throw in the dark eggs needed for this breed which is one of, if not the most important trait that sets this breed apart. Aye yi yi.