International Black Copper Marans Thread - Breeding to the SOP

[chickengr]

Really? Dehydration is actually a noted cause of fallen combs by poultry vets. Usually after they are rehydrated the combs perk back up... maybe I am crazy but my australorps have had this happen in the summer and then their combs are okay again in the winter/spring time.

the marans hens here have leghorn like combs all the time. I do have a cockerel who's comb returns up when he is feeling well but with the hens the reason is genetic.

 

[Chooks man]

How likely is it to have a pullet with no leg hair and a cockerel with leg hair - from the same hatch/mating pair?

it is pretty normal to have feathered and no feathered legs in the same hatch.

here why;

the marans chooks carry the Pti1 genes responsible for legs feathering. BUT the Pti1 is not a complete gene it is half way meeting point between the No feathers gene pti+ ( Recessive ,that why does carry the +) and the Feathers gene Pti 2 ( dominant ).

chooks with a pti+ genes have no feathers on they legs.

chooks with a Pti 2 genes have feathers on the inner and the outer side of they legs .

Marans chooks carry the Pti1 genes causing them to feathers up just from the outer side of the shanks BUT some time few will show up without feathers pti+ or with too much feathers Pti2. we call t in genetic . ATAVISTIC RETURN of the recessive gene.

It is a easy problem to fix use a feathered rooster over a feathers less hens and you will get a gig portion of they progeny with feathered shank.

Hope that will help you to get your head around.

chooks man

 

[Chooks man]

She was actually selling a few cockerels not that long ago. Her birds are absolutely gorgeous!

I was justing speaking to a local breeder about his marans project and he told me he had a group of pure LP marans

. Might have to give some of his eggs a try right at the start of 2017. Once your girls start laying I'd be happy to buy some egg from you @RedBanks , I love the look of your girls.

that will be nice if you can score some pure LP fertile eggs from your breeder. So you don t worst your time by running to all sort of problem.

LP are the real deal . see how perfect they are . faultless ,the way they should be .

you will get some eggs from RedBank for sure ,she is happy to send you some wen available .

with this 2 line you don t need more . focus on them and work them well . I ll help you to do that ..

First you need to wait tell you get the eggs, prepare for them slowly and document your self on the marans genetic .

use the chicken genetic calculator to understand how the genes work as a group. will help you a lot to know the cj=hooks .

Good luck

chooks man

 

[Chooks man]

No much I can see from this photo. need a better one.

she have a nice copper on her hackle, a little bit more will be nicer .
nice long back .
great tail well formed and nice angle too
head comb and wattle are all good
eye color poor .need to be orange . easy to fix with well colored eyes rooster

I m well happy with the color of her eggs . I m aware of the end of the season .

I ll wait for more photos of her.

chooks man

 

[Chooks man]

I was afraid to say that I had a muscovie drake called jose antonio. I called him tony for short.

I have noticed that french marans roos are bigger than in greece. as far as I know most of the breeders imported marans and other birds from romania so who knows what blood they have (hope not dracula's, lol) is the bent/floppy comb at hens a sign that they are not pure marans? my pullet is still young and her comb is ok at the moment. fingers crossed. her mother had comb like leghorns.

most of the eastern European marans strain come from Russia ,

in the 1960 the Russian imported marans chooks to create cross bred layer of dark egg and easy to be sexed at hatch .

from that project a lot of chooks spread around a country side and villages of all Eastern Europe.

I have a Russian friend in Sydney ( they run a Restaurent and they buy marans cockerels from me ) they show me they parent chooks . they are marnas X. plus they know about the marans.

guess the chooks from Romania and Russia are related .

chooks man

 

[Red Banks]

I found this article on Little Peddler Website. It is written by Curtis Hale. He raises Cream Legbars now.
I am always reading and researching...... if I overshare you will just have to skip my posts!

Genetics
I favor progeny testing over genetics for improving egg color. I know that the rooster carries egg color genes, but the
study on egg color done but R.C. Punnet isolated more than a dozen different genes for brown eggs and concluded
that for really dark eggs that you required one of the major brown egg genes and as many of the minor egg colors as
possible (the minor colors stack-up, the major colors are an either or).
Color genetics are the easiest to learn and the easiest to select for in breeding. I also read one of R.G. Punnets
papers on the inheritance of weight where he crossed Bantams with Large fowl, but when you get to size and type
the genetics aren't going to help you much. Those areas of the bird are typically improved through culling because
they are polygenetic and cannot be identified or controlled by a single factor.
Some of my tips that I have collected over the years are:
1) a high tail on a cockerel can see improvements in his sons if the hens has a low tail.
2) if you want larger hens breeding a your largest cockerel to average sized hens won't work and will produce
average sized hens, but breeding your largest hen will make for larger hens (even if not breed to your largest
cockerel).
3) In a pairing it is more important that the cockerel's color be perfect than for the hen's color to be perfect
4) in a pairing it is more important for a hen's type to be perfect than for a cockerel's type to be perfect
5) combs tend to be passed from the hen in a pairing
6) A short shanked hen and a long shanked cockerel produce correct proportions while two short shanked birds will
have offspring that are dumpy and two long shanked birds will have offspring that are too lanky and upright (even if
the parent are with in what is acceptable just on the bottom or top of the spectrum)
7) White under coats on the BCM can be carried by the hen, but only show up in the cockerel
8) Dark Egg color can be restored successful in a line that has lost it with use of either a cockerel or a hen (both
carry all the genes).
Well that is a start for discussion. The best thing really to do is to pedigree your flock and keep good notes. Your
Marans may be built on a different portion of the available gene pool than someone else's flock and what they find in
their flock may not hold true for your flock.
Curtis Hale

 

[Chooks man]

her a good example of how the marans cockerels should look from the rear.
legs well wide and strait . notice the width at the thigh level and the shoulder are almost the same. giving a well balanced body .and impression of strength and power

tail wide at the base and strong but closed at the top , forming the pyramid shape desired NOT open NOT folded at the bottom.
look at the base of they feet nice pinkish color a sign of a marans trait.

both are stunning type wise.

chooks man

 

[Chooks man]

I found this article on Little Peddler Website. It is written by Curtis Hale. He raises Cream Legbars now.
I am always reading and researching...... if I overshare you will just have to skip my posts!

Genetics
I favor progeny testing over genetics for improving egg color. I know that the rooster carries egg color genes, but the
study on egg color done but R.C. Punnet isolated more than a dozen different genes for brown eggs and concluded
that for really dark eggs that you required one of the major brown egg genes and as many of the minor egg colors as
possible (the minor colors stack-up, the major colors are an either or).
Color genetics are the easiest to learn and the easiest to select for in breeding. I also read one of R.G. Punnets
papers on the inheritance of weight where he crossed Bantams with Large fowl, but when you get to size and type
the genetics aren't going to help you much. Those areas of the bird are typically improved through culling because
they are polygenetic and cannot be identified or controlled by a single factor.
Some of my tips that I have collected over the years are:
1) a high tail on a cockerel can see improvements in his sons if the hens has a low tail.
2) if you want larger hens breeding a your largest cockerel to average sized hens won't work and will produce
average sized hens, but breeding your largest hen will make for larger hens (even if not breed to your largest
cockerel).
3) In a pairing it is more important that the cockerel's color be perfect than for the hen's color to be perfect
4) in a pairing it is more important for a hen's type to be perfect than for a cockerel's type to be perfect
5) combs tend to be passed from the hen in a pairing
6) A short shanked hen and a long shanked cockerel produce correct proportions while two short shanked birds will
have offspring that are dumpy and two long shanked birds will have offspring that are too lanky and upright (even if
the parent are with in what is acceptable just on the bottom or top of the spectrum)
7) White under coats on the BCM can be carried by the hen, but only show up in the cockerel
8) Dark Egg color can be restored successful in a line that has lost it with use of either a cockerel or a hen (both
carry all the genes).
Well that is a start for discussion. The best thing really to do is to pedigree your flock and keep good notes. Your
Marans may be built on a different portion of the available gene pool than someone else's flock and what they find in
their flock may not hold true for your flock.
Curtis Hale

I want to high light this 2 point . number 7 and 8.

7) the BCM variety is the most complex of all the marans varieties .Because the Hen s do not show all they genes they carry especially the Autossomal Red AR one s.
genetically speaking she should have a red shoulder ( AR gene Not sex linked gene ) but she does not show that ,she have a black shoulder .Ah but she will past t to her son s.

this is one of the reason the French Marans standard insist that a BCM rooster should have a nice red ( mahogany ) shoulder Not copper , Not gold NOT black .

The standard insist as well that a BCM rooster should have a pure dark under feathers NOT light .

8) dark egg color .We have to create line breeding to reinforce the genes in the future generation and breed them true. Rooster is s quicker ride .without line breeding we are not going any where. it is just keeping our selves busy and multiplying chooks .

THAT NOT BREEDING.

BREEDING is fixing the desirable traits and breeding out the faults in the future generation NOT JUST MULTIPLYING THE CHOOKS

chooks man

 

[Braxton Brigade]

Tha

that will be nice if you can score some pure LP fertile eggs from your breeder. So you don t worst your time by running to all sort of problem. LP are the real deal . see how perfect they are . faultless ,the way they should be . you will get some eggs from RedBank for sure ,she is happy to send you some wen available . with this 2 line you don t need more . focus on them and work them well . I ll help you to do that .. First you need to wait tell you get the eggs, prepare for them slowly and document your self on the marans genetic . use the chicken genetic calculator to understand how the genes work as a group. will help you a lot to know the cj=hooks . Good luck chooks man

I truly appreciate you sharing your experience with me.

No much I can see from this photo. need a better one. she have a nice copper on her hackle, a little bit more will be nicer . nice long back . great tail well formed and nice angle too head comb and wattle are all good eye color poor .need to be orange . easy to fix with well colored eyes rooster I m well happy with the color of her eggs . I m aware of the end of the season . I ll wait for more photos of her. chooks man

I will post the only other picture I have right now, I will get much better ones this afternoon.

 

[Matej]

Here are some of our marans chickens. They lay realy dark eggs.