International Black Copper Marans Thread - Breeding to the SOP

[Chooks man]

Chooks man will say, "No worries..... it ain't no hill for a stepper."

you are alright RedBank .No worries ,every thing has a way to go around it.every problem has it own solution . we just have to look and find out.

the low of genetic are a same to all the living been . based on the dominant and the recessive genes .

Dominant genes does not mean they are perfect genes ,NO that not true. what does mean is just that. they are Dominant ,they will always come up on the top .

Recessive genes doesn t mean they are bad genes .they are just not strong enough to compete with a dominant genes.

Most of the domestic chooks are based on the recessive genes. like = good laying . No broodiness . yellow feet. white flash . fast growing chooks . etc..............

So the breeding low are the same .the dominant genes will always take the first seat even when they are as a single copies. for the recessive gene to show up they need 2 copies .

So it is all about breeding program ..what we want to breed in ( true ) and what we want to breed out.
what genes are Sex linked and what are not. that will give us an idea to who we choose as breeder Recessive or Dominant and gene belong to who ? Sire or Dam .

The Mandell low of inheritance are well known and studied .
they explain very well how the genes get inherited recording to they Dominance or Recessive .

as long as the parents stock do not carry the same gene we want to breed in or out this is always a way out.

so doesn t matter what gene COULD be bred in or out Genetic Fact not speculation .

chooks man

 

[Chooks man]

GOOD Breeding practices .

to breed any genes in or out here we have to follow the Low of inheritance ( we can t speculate - doesn t take us any where - just empty chooks pens). we have to know .

Low of inheritance are saying if one of the parents stock have a Fault that we want to breed it out it is possible. here how we do it;
Parent stock = A and B ( B carry the recessive gene );
Fault nature = Recessive .
Fault type = 1) Sex linked = we prefer the rooster has not the fault .we don t mind if the hen carries the recessive gene.
= 2) Autossomal = doesn t matter witch parents carries the recessive gene . doesn t make a difference .


Stage1= mate A and B = AB mostly all dominant we can not see the recessive genes ( because there are in singular form )

Stage2 = mate F1 X F1 between them selves = we ll get true F2 progeny ; 75% have a Dominant gene, and 25% have a Recessive gene .

Stage3= mate F2 X F2 only the Dominant ones ( the recessive carriers are out ) = we get the true F3 inbreed type bird most of them are Dominant ( we expect some ATAVISTIC RETURN of the recessive gene ) some chooks less than 1% will show the recessive .

Stage 4 = F3 are correct bird now or most of them it is a time to cross them out to an equivalent line to start a new one as F1. Or continue line breeding by Splitting the line into 2 line pullets line and cockerels line.

hope this will explain genetic Bla Bla

chooks man

 

[bluejean55girl]

 
Chooks man will say, "No worries..... it ain't no hill for a stepper."

you are alright RedBank .No worries ,every thing has a way to go around it.every problem has it own solution . we just have to look and find out.

the low of genetic are a same to all the living been . based on the dominant and the recessive genes .

Dominant genes does not mean they are perfect genes ,NO that not true. what does mean is just that. they are Dominant ,they will always come up on the top .

Recessive genes doesn t mean they are bad genes .they are just not strong  enough to compete with a dominant genes.

Most of the domestic chooks are based on the recessive genes. like = good laying . No broodiness . yellow feet. white flash . fast growing chooks . etc..............

So the breeding low are the same .the dominant genes will always take the first seat even when they are as  a single copies. for the recessive gene to show up they need 2 copies .

So it is all about breeding program ..what we want to breed in ( true ) and what we want to breed out.
what genes are Sex linked and what are not. that will give us an idea to who we choose as breeder Recessive or Dominant and gene belong to who ? Sire or Dam .

The Mandell low of inheritance are well known and studied .
they explain very well how the genes get inherited recording  to they Dominance or Recessive .

as long as the parents stock do not carry the same gene we want to breed in or out this is always a way out.

so doesn t matter what gene COULD be bred in or out Genetic Fact not speculation .

chooks man

so we don't have to worry about using stock with faults, it's all about balance and proper selection. The balance of breeding of birds with a known fault to a bird without it. Then selecting the proper bird and going to the next steps to keep what we gained.

I'm so glad that I followed red banks here, and we have a teacher like you to help us understand that it is really possible to breed for what we need/want.

 

[Red Banks]

GOOD Breeding practices .

to breed any genes in or out here we have to follow the Low of inheritance ( we can t speculate - doesn t take us any where - just empty chooks pens). we have to know .

Low of inheritance are saying if one of the parents stock have a Fault that we want to breed it out it is possible. here how we do it;
Parent stock = A and B ( B carry the recessive gene );
Fault nature = Recessive .
Fault type = 1) Sex linked = we prefer the rooster has not the fault .we don t mind if the hen carries the recessive gene.
= 2) Autossomal = doesn t matter witch parents carries the recessive gene . doesn t make a difference .


Stage1= mate A and B = AB mostly all dominant we can not see the recessive genes ( because there are in singular form )

Stage2 = mate F1 X F1 between them selves = we ll get true F2 progeny ; 75% have a Dominant gene, and 25% have a Recessive gene .

Stage3= mate F2 X F2 only the Dominant ones ( the recessive carriers are out ) = we get the true F3 inbreed type bird most of them are Dominant ( we expect some ATAVISTIC RETURN of the recessive gene ) some chooks less than 1% will show the recessive .

Stage 4 = F3 are correct bird now or most of them it is a time to cross them out to an equivalent line to start a new one as F1. Or continue line breeding by Splitting the line into 2 line pullets line and cockerels line.

hope this will explain genetic Bla Bla

chooks man

So we are masters of our universe if we have the knowledge and we are willing to spend the time. Vulture hocks too!

 

[bluejean55girl]

GOOD Breeding practices .

to breed any genes in or out here we have to follow the Low of inheritance ( we can t speculate - doesn t take us any where - just empty chooks pens). we have to know .

Low of inheritance are saying if one of the parents stock have a Fault  that we want to breed it out it is possible. here how we do it;
Parent stock = A and B ( B carry the recessive gene );
Fault nature = Recessive .
Fault type = 1) Sex linked = we prefer the rooster has not the fault .we don t mind if the hen carries the recessive gene.
               = 2) Autossomal  = doesn t matter witch parents carries the recessive gene . doesn t make a difference .


Stage1= mate A and B = AB mostly all dominant we can not see the recessive genes ( because there are in singular form )

Stage2 = mate F1 X F1 between them selves = we ll get true F2 progeny ; 75% have a Dominant gene, and 25% have a  Recessive gene .

Stage3= mate F2 X F2 only the Dominant ones ( the recessive carriers are out ) = we get the true F3 inbreed type bird  most of them are Dominant ( we expect some ATAVISTIC RETURN  of the recessive gene ) some chooks less than 1% will show the recessive .

Stage 4 = F3 are correct bird now or most of them it is a time to cross them out to an equivalent line to start a new one as F1. Or continue line breeding by Splitting the line into 2 line pullets line and cockerels line.

hope this will explain genetic Bla Bla

chooks man

awesome

Many many thanks to you for taking the time to write all this out.

This is so nice, selection truly is the key, and not being afraid to try.

So this is line breeding. Can I follow this plan with cattle? This is the reason why I'm following this thread, not just for the chicken breeding, but also to use this knowledge in my cattle breeding too.

I bought the bulls and cows that carry the N Bar brand. But that old man is dead. I've studied the paper breeding for years. Now I need to carry his 42 year old breeding program forward. Because he is gone. This is valuable knowledge because the modern cattleman is only taught to outcross. And most are scared of line breeding.

I believe in line breeding and want to do it properly. And thanks to you I have a much better chance to do honor to that old man's program and not mess up what he put into place.

 

[Chooks man]

so we don't have to worry about using stock with faults, it's all about balance and proper selection. The balance of breeding of birds with a known fault to a bird without it. Then selecting the proper bird and going to the next steps to keep what we gained.

I'm so glad that I followed red banks here, and we have a teacher like you to help us understand that it is really possible to breed for what we need/want.

that alright . most of the time we are forced to work with a fault not because we like it.

just we have to find a way to go around it that all.

I m just sharing my knowledge and work with you guys I do consider my self teacher . No no . just a friend who get his head around genetic that all .

I m working with a true genetic professor in few project in this country most of them are Cattle , Dairy and Sheep project . So I m a student too.

chooks man

 

[kfelton0002]

Not confusing at all..... I knew just who you were talking about.  I have checked out her website, very nice.  I want a GP but just so hot here.  A woman has one here and it always smells like mildewed clothes.

I don't know how you manage all that you do!  

Well my husband takes care of all the animals for the most part while Im in school. My mind stays so full of nursing stuff it kind of pushes everything else out. Lol. I put the peanut butter in the fridge yesterday because Im crazy!

We cut our GP's short when the weather is hot. Their hair grows back by the time its cold again. They are such magnificent chicken guard dogs. We rarely lose birds to predators, and when we do it is young chicks usually to rats. (Eeeek!! I know!!) The rat issue is kept under control with poision. We have our old male Rowdy, he's around 9y/o and then we have a 2y/o female named Rosie. Best dogs ever.

They are outside working dogs so they stay dirty. Lol. This pic was earlier this spring.

 

[kfelton0002]

@Chooks man Completely unrelated to Marans, I have a speckled sussex cockerel I had planned on using as a breeder in the spring. I never noticed before but yesterday I saw that he has one normal wattle and one tiny under developed wattle (like a pullet). Would this knock him out as a breeder? He is perfect otherwise.

I will call him One Wattle.

 

[Chooks man]

So we are masters of our universe if we have the knowledge and we are willing to spend the time. Vulture hocks too!

we created this domestic animal .No really us but good breeders before us , we are struggling to keep them going never mind creating them .

some thing we have to understand .when we work with a fault we have to accept we are going to hatch a good number and we are going to cull quite a lot for a first few years of the breeding program.

I only kept 5% of the chooks I bred last year . So it is not a walk in the park can go hard some time .

Good breeding program can do magic for sure .

chooks man

 

[bluejean55girl]

so we don't have to worry about using stock with faults, it's all about balance and proper selection. The balance of breeding of birds with a known fault to a bird without it. Then selecting the proper bird and going to the next steps to keep what we gained.


I'm so glad that I followed red banks here, and we have a teacher like you to help us understand that it is really possible to breed for what we need/want.

that alright . most of the time we are forced to work with a fault not because we like it.

just we have to find a way to go around it that all.

I m just sharing my knowledge and work with you guys I do consider my self teacher . No no . just a friend who get his head around genetic that all .

I m working with a true genetic professor in few project in this country most of them are Cattle , Dairy and Sheep project . So I m a student too.

chooks man

well, I love your genetics bla bla bla, this is exactly why I'm here. Grins