International Black Copper Marans Thread - Breeding to the SOP

[Chooks man]

Take it easy Chooks Man..,not just some Chooks in some backyard?!! That sounds a bit harsher than you! My backyard Chooks have as much space asI can give them. They get fresh grass from my neighbor (I sometimes have to scissor cut it to make it closer to the "bites" they would take if Chooks grazing in a field). I beg leaves from other people's yards even raking their yards for them. They act like children with a bursting piñata when I dump those leaves into their play yard! I give them garlic, apple cider vinegar, and other natural adds to keep them healthy. Resort to antibiotics rather than lose them. Pull yucky, squirmy black soldier fly beetles from my earthworm bin to treat them. Throw out a small bit of food grade DE covered across their yard to watch them chase it down and hold back parasite overload. I dig deeper into their play place, turn it over to keep it healthy. Hang fruits and veggies for them to jump and chase. Bring in branches and create new activity areas for them regularly. I drink my coffee with them nearly every morning. Read up on this and other sites to help them when ill. I pet them, talk with them, and brag about them. These are not just some backyard Chooks though they live on the Big City. These are My Chooks! Still love you Chooks Man. You just got my dander up a bit !

Sorry I did not mean to upset you or been nasty to you . my apology if I said some thing wrong . good luck to you . Chooks man

 

[raisechickens]

Last night I purchased 3 bcm cockerels and 3 bcm hens, all are 6 months old, and hoping to select one cockerel to use as a breeder. I have spent hours reading about the French standards today but the more I read the more I realize I don't know enough to select the right cockerel on my own. Here are some pics of the three. If better pics are needs please let me know, and thanks in advance for your help.

Cockerel 1:

Cockerel 2:

Cockerel 3:

Cockerel 3 wasn't cooperative when I was taking pics. Seems like he was always in the back and amongst the hens. I can get more pics if needed.

 

[3riverschick]

Hi,
I vote for cockerel number 3. I like his breast color the best. Not a fan of the comb on any of them. But he has a nice body and combs can be fixed. Also, no brown that I can see in his breast. Always a good thing.
Best,
Karen

 

[KF0002]

Last night I purchased 3 bcm cockerels and 3 bcm hens, all are 6 months old, and hoping to select one cockerel to use as a breeder. I have spent hours reading about the French standards today but the more I read the more I realize I don't know enough to select the right cockerel on my own. Here are some pics of the three. If better pics are needs please let me know, and thanks in advance for your help.

Cockerel 1:






Cockerel 2:








Cockerel 3:




Cockerel 3 wasn't cooperative when I was taking pics. Seems like he was always in the back and amongst the hens. I can get more pics if needed.

Cockerel #1 looks too tall. His thighs and bottom feathers appear too fluffy. Comb isn't great as 3riverschick said but that's not a big deal, as combs can be corrected with proper combed hens. His breast has too much color unless he was being mated to overmelanized hens. Tail angle is okay. Leg feathering and color is good. Can't tell much about eye color.

Cockerel #2 has best comb of the 3 to me. Eyes look dark. Ever so slight halo to hackle. Leg feather and color look appropriate. Tail looks to have good angle but it's hard to tell much about his type in these pictures. His copper is the darkest of the 3 but if mated to well colored pullets with good eye color he could be useful.

Cockerel #3 looks knock kneed but that could just be the way he is standing. Light colored halo to hackle. Comb is too big and the worst of the 3, again not a huge deal. His type looks good, but the slope of his back looks a tad high. Leg feathering and color look good. Tail angle would probably be a little higher but from the rough "picked on" look of his comb, this cockerel looks to be the underdog. (Cockerel #1 looks like the dominant cockerel in this bunch). Cockerel #3 looks like a nice meaty bird so that's good. Mated to some of your darker, good combed pullets would balance out his halo and put better combs on the offspring.

What I would probably do is set up 2 pens. If he has good type, put cockerel #2 in a pen with your pullets that have the most copper in their hackles. And put cockerel #3 in a pen with your darker pullets that have a lesser amount of copper in their hackles to balance out the lighter hackle of cockerel #3. Then toe punch, wing or leg band the chicks so chicks from each group can be identified. Once they grow out you can choose the best birds from each group to mate together to keep from inbreeding so bad (male from one group mated to pullets of the other and vice versa). Chooks man advises hatching a minimum of 20 chicks per mating so you have a good selection to choose from.

That's my 2 cents. But I'm still fairly new to Marans and I'm still learning myself.

 

[raisechickens]

Thanks for all the advice so far. Kfelton0002, I observed the cockerels yesterday to see who was dominate. You managed to hit the mark dead on without seeing them in person. Cockerel 1 is the biggest bird and is dominant. Cockerel 2 is brave enough to crow once in a while. Cockerel 3 is at the bottom of the pecking order.

Judging by your comments a few better pics would help. I will try to get some of cockerel 2 and cockerel 3 today.

Again, thanks a million for your help so far.

 

[raisechickens]

I have taken some more pics of cockerels 2 and 3, and I have also taken some pics of the 3 pullets. Here they are:

Cockerel 2:

Cockerel 3:

Pullets (just to show what the cockerels will be bread to):

Again, thanks for taking the time to help me out.

 

[winterhorses]

Hi there! Trying to catch up on pages of posts...loving the BCM pics and also all the beautiful dogs!

I've finally got some of Pinky's eggs in the 'bator and am hoping that he can improve my sad little pullets. The 3 BCM chicks I got from another farm all turned out to be boys, and 2 are definite culls. I'll have to try to get pictures to make sure I'm not totally off base, but both have a ridiculous amount of copper on their chests.

I'm really excited about my project Lavender Marans. I've got 2 cockerels, 2 pullets, and 2 black/lav split pullets. I love the diluted hackles on the splits. They almost look silver. I think one of the boys has vulture hocks, but he's the sweetest chicken I've had so far, so he's staying for sure.

These are vulture hocks, yes?




Here are a lav pullet and a black/lav pullet at the waterer. (It's the only place they'd stand still!)





In addition to my Lav Marans, I'm getting together a group of Lav Ameraucanas to add to the 2 Lav OEs I already have. This is my sweet LA, Floppy. He loves jumping up on my arm or shoulder to hang out or eat treats. Only problem is that he does it ALL the time. I've got nail marks all over me, lol.

 

[winterhorses]

Two new pics of Pinky Pie. His tail is a little fuller/longer, and he has a little bit more copper.



For some reason, his saddle feathers look a lot lighter than his hackles in this pic.



He's a very good roo who takes perfect care of his girls. He has this strange thing about shoes, though, and if I wear anything other than my muck boots, he tries to attack them, lol.

 

[KF0002]

I have taken some more pics of cockerels 2 and 3, and I have also taken some pics of the 3 pullets. Here they are:

Cockerel 2:










Cockerel 3:








Pullets (just to show what the cockerels will be bread to):








Again, thanks for taking the time to help me out.

You're welcome! I may not be the best people person, but by now I am an expert at chicken body language and behavior. lol You learn them the more you watch them and how they stand and behave around one another.

Cockerel #3 definitely has the best type of the two. In these pics his back isn't sloped like they were in your previous post. You want a nice long flat back that gently slopes downward to the tail. He may hold his tail higher as he matures and once the more dominant cockerels are removed from the pen. The only issues that stand out with him are his halo (yellow at the bottom of his hackle), and his comb which isn't a big deal. If you only plan to use one cockerel, I would use cockerel #3. I can't tell much about his eye color but they don't seem as dark as #2. Eyes should be orange/red, not brown or black.

Cockerel #2 is a lovely cockerel as well, but I don't like his type as much as cockerel #3. I do like his color better. His eyes are dark and he will likely pass that onto his offspring. If I'm not mistaken, Chooks man has told us that eye color comes mainly from the male, so I would keep him as a backup to cockerel #3.

The pullet in the first 2 pics looks overmelanized (excess of black, little to no copper), but the darker pullets may help correct the halo on cockerel #3. It's all about balancing flaws of a bird with traits of another bird.

Hatch a bunch of chicks, cull heavy and keep the best to move forward to the next year. Correct flaws a little more each generation. That's all any of us can do. Good luck! Chickens are fun! And the folks of this thread are very helpful. Glad to have you here with us! And the Marans gurus that have dealt with them longer can step in and correct me where I fall short. I learn something new all the time.

 

[KF0002]

Hi there! Trying to catch up on pages of posts...loving the BCM pics and also all the beautiful dogs!

I've finally got some of Pinky's eggs in the 'bator and am hoping that he can improve my sad little pullets. The 3 BCM chicks I got from another farm all turned out to be boys, and 2 are definite culls. I'll have to try to get pictures to make sure I'm not totally off base, but both have a ridiculous amount of copper on their chests.

I'm really excited about my project Lavender Marans. I've got 2 cockerels, 2 pullets, and 2 black/lav split pullets. I love the diluted hackles on the splits. They almost look silver. I think one of the boys has vulture hocks, but he's the sweetest chicken I've had so far, so he's staying for sure.

These are vulture hocks, yes?




Here are a lav pullet and a black/lav pullet at the waterer. (It's the only place they'd stand still!)





In addition to my Lav Marans, I'm getting together a group of Lav Ameraucanas to add to the 2 Lav OEs I already have. This is my sweet LA, Floppy. He loves jumping up on my arm or shoulder to hang out or eat treats. Only problem is that he does it ALL the time. I've got nail marks all over me, lol.

I don't think your lovely little lavender cockerel has vulture hocks, just heavily feathered thighs. Vulture hock type feathers are stiffer and longer. I may be wrong as it's not a subject that brings up much info when I've done searches. I had a cockerel from my LA group that had vulture hocks and it was very noticeable. Vulture hock feathers don't feel soft and fluffy like normal thigh feathers feel. When I think vulture hocks, I think d'uccle belgain bantams.

The lavender and split to lavender pullets are beautiful! What a cool project!

And the lavender ameraucanas.. be still my heart! Such striking birds!