International Black Copper Marans Thread - Breeding to the SOP

[Red Banks]

thank you my friend .

we ll go over all those genes ,one by one
when we understand the difference between the sex linked and the autossomal genes .we ll be able to breed great chooks .plus it make it easier to select the breeding pens ,who goes with who . what reason behind it .

chooks man

So for the problem of over melanized .....an over melanized hen with a good colored rooster will give me good colored pullets and cockerels just as an example of pairing but an over melanized rooster with a properly colored hen will only produce good colored cockerels and my hens will remain overmelanized. this was a big problem a couple of years ago, hens had no hackle.

The one thing I have noticed on this thread is that the BCM in general keep getting better and better. A lot of really nice BCM.

 

[KF0002]

So for the problem of over melanized .....an over melanized hen with a good colored rooster will give me good colored pullets and cockerels just as an example of pairing but an over melanized rooster with a properly colored hen will only produce good colored cockerels and my hens will remain overmelanized. this was a big problem a couple of years ago, hens had no hackle.

The one thing I have noticed on this thread is that the BCM in general keep getting better and better. A lot of really nice BCM.

That is how I understood it. If the rooster is nicely colored, his male and female offspring will have good color as well, even if paired to an overmelanized hen. A well colored rooster will balance out the darker hen.

If the rooster is overmelanized, his daughters will likely be overmelanized, even if the hen he was mated to was well colored. And the cockerels will take after their mother, and have better color than their father. I hope I understand this correctly.

In our game chickens I notice something similar to this quite often. Even though comb is not sex linked per se, I have noticed that 90% of the time if I mate a pea combed gamecock to a straight combed game hen, the male offspring will be straight combed like their mother, and the female offspring will be pea combed like their father. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but it happens quite often. Often enough that I can just about sex those chicks at birth fairly accurately by their comb.

 

[KF0002]

An old timers rule of thumb with chickens I have been taught is that the cockerels take after the hen, and the pullets take after the cock bird.

 

[Red Banks]

Yes, Chooks man says that females inherit their hackle color from their sire only. Males get their color from both their sire and their dam. I am committing that to memory. Chooks man is a wealth of knowledge.

He is the best...... my favorite Chooks man quote:
If you keep culling you won't have any chooks in your yard.

 

[Red Banks]

@kfelton0002

This is where our "tail" problem comes from but the copper is heavenly.
One is LP, one is GFF. FRF roostersView attachment 1163507 View attachment 1163520

I think I have some more pictures of the FRF birds. I will try to find them in my thousands of pictures!

 

[Chooks man]

So for the problem of over melanized .....an over melanized hen with a good colored rooster will give me good colored pullets and cockerels just as an example of pairing but an over melanized rooster with a properly colored hen will only produce good colored cockerels and my hens will remain overmelanized. this was a big problem a couple of years ago, hens had no hackle.

The one thing I have noticed on this thread is that the BCM in general keep getting better and better. A lot of really nice BCM.

Don t go too fast my friend .
it is quite complicated than that .
we are only talking about the Silver and gold sex linked gene ( S/S .S/- and s+/s+ .s/-) those genes are responsible or just a hackle ,saddle and the lancet colors of the Rooster and hackle of the hen .
the Rooster have both copies S/S ( Birchen ) or s+/s+ for the BCM,that why his hackle ,saddle and lancet are colored .
the hen on the other hand has only one copy S/- ( Birchen ) or s+/- for BC . so only her hackle is colored .

here who does work =
1) Rooster with a well colored hackle ,saddle and lancets MATED TO hen with colored hackle = progeny will be =
Cockerels = they will get 50% of they color from they Sire ( Rooster) ,plus they ll get the other 50% from they Dam ( mama hen ) .well colored cockerel.
Pullet get they 50% from they Sire ,that will cover they hackle area that all . they get nothing for mama or they can t express it = pullets with a colored hackle.
this method is true in the absence of any modifier genes or inhibitor genes.

2) Rooster with a well colored hackle saddle and lancets MATED TO Hen without a colored hackle ( this hens still is S/- for a Birchen and s+/- for a BC ,she has Silver or Gold but with a presence of other modifying genes like sort of Melanin etc..........) the reason she is black = Progeny will be =
Cockerels = half way colored ,maybe the hackle and a little part of the lancet or just hackle that all . those colors are from they Sire ,nothing form mama as far as colors because she is black but they will inherit the modifying genes from her.
Pullets = most of them will have a colored hackle .

3) Rooster without a colored hackle or Lancet /saddle ( half way colored ) MATED TO Hen with a colored hackle = progeny will be =
Cockerels = half of them will have a colored hackle ,saddle and lancet .the other half will be half way colored .
Pullets = most of them will be black .only few with a spotted hackle or just around the head and the upper part of the neck .

4) Rooster fully black ( presence of modifying/ Inhibitor gene s ) MATTED TO Hen with a colored hackle . progeny will be =
Cockerels = half black and half half way colored
Pullets = all black

those Black progeny ( Pullets or Cockerels ) are still gold or Silver carriers but the modifying genes are interfering with the expression of it .
THEY ARE NOT PURE BLACK .

next time we talk about the Autossomal Red Ar responsible for the color of the ears tufts . shoulders and upper chest for the Rooster . the ears tufts and spotted chest for the Hen .

for the chooks to be well colored both of those genes Sex linked and Autossomal red have to present .

chooks man

 

[Chooks man]

I look forward to your lessons! That's the kind of school I can get used to, definitely beats my nursing classes. lol

I ll try my best .
all those information I m sharing with you guys was collected for my book.

chooks man

 

[Red Banks]

Don t go too fast my friend .
it is quite complicated than that .
we are only talking about the Silver and gold sex linked gene ( S/S .S/- and s+/s+ .s/-) those genes are responsible or just a hackle ,saddle and the lancet colors of the Rooster and hackle of the hen .
the Rooster have both copies S/S ( Birchen ) or s+/s+ for the BCM,that why his hackle ,saddle and lancet are colored .
the hen on the other hand has only one copy S/- ( Birchen ) or s+/- for BC . so only her hackle is colored .

here who does work =
1) Rooster with a well colored hackle ,saddle and lancets MATED TO hen with colored hackle = progeny will be =
Cockerels = they will get 50% of they color from they Sire ( Rooster) ,plus they ll get the other 50% from they Dam ( mama hen ) .well colored cockerel.
Pullet get they 50% from they Sire ,that will cover they hackle area that all . they get nothing for mama or they can t express it = pullets with a colored hackle.
this method is true in the absence of any modifier genes or inhibitor genes.

2) Rooster with a well colored hackle saddle and lancets MATED TO Hen without a colored hackle ( this hens still is S/- for a Birchen and s+/- for a BC ,she has Silver or Gold but with a presence of other modifying genes like sort of Melanin etc..........) the reason she is black = Progeny will be =
Cockerels = half way colored ,maybe the hackle and a little part of the lancet or just hackle that all . those colors are from they Sire ,nothing form mama as far as colors because she is black but they will inherit the modifying genes from her.
Pullets = most of them will have a colored hackle .

3) Rooster without a colored hackle or Lancet /saddle ( half way colored ) MATED TO Hen with a colored hackle = progeny will be =
Cockerels = half of them will have a colored hackle ,saddle and lancet .the other half will be half way colored .
Pullets = most of them will be black .only few with a spotted hackle or just around the head and the upper part of the neck .

4) Rooster fully black ( presence of modifying/ Inhibitor gene s ) MATTED TO Hen with a colored hackle . progeny will be =
Cockerels = half black and half half way colored
Pullets = all black

those Black progeny ( Pullets or Cockerels ) are still gold or Silver carriers but the modifying genes are interfering with the expression of it .
THEY ARE NOT PURE BLACK .

next time we talk about the Autossomal Red Ar responsible for the color of the ears tufts . shoulders and upper chest for the Rooster . the ears tufts and spotted chest for the Hen .

for the chooks to be well colored both of those genes Sex linked and Autossomal red have to present .

chooks man

I certainly did over simplify. Glad the delivery man didn't come!

 

[Chooks man]

The LP rooster was the one on the left correct, with the white in the tail? The color of my little FRF cockerel is looking very similar to them. Those high set tails haunt me in my sleep. I lay awake thinking about how I will fix them some nights.. true story. lol

I'm a little nuts.

will get to that one day soon .
some out cross need to be done in a specific way between the LP and the FRF lines will solve a problem .
both original lines come from a small stock .so you guys are dealing with a lot Atavistic return of the Recessive genes .

chooks man

 

[KF0002]

Don t go too fast my friend .
it is quite complicated than that .
we are only talking about the Silver and gold sex linked gene ( S/S .S/- and s+/s+ .s/-) those genes are responsible or just a hackle ,saddle and the lancet colors of the Rooster and hackle of the hen .
the Rooster have both copies S/S ( Birchen ) or s+/s+ for the BCM,that why his hackle ,saddle and lancet are colored .
the hen on the other hand has only one copy S/- ( Birchen ) or s+/- for BC . so only her hackle is colored .

here who does work =
1) Rooster with a well colored hackle ,saddle and lancets MATED TO hen with colored hackle = progeny will be =
Cockerels = they will get 50% of they color from they Sire ( Rooster) ,plus they ll get the other 50% from they Dam ( mama hen ) .well colored cockerel.
Pullet get they 50% from they Sire ,that will cover they hackle area that all . they get nothing for mama or they can t express it = pullets with a colored hackle.
this method is true in the absence of any modifier genes or inhibitor genes.

2) Rooster with a well colored hackle saddle and lancets MATED TO Hen without a colored hackle ( this hens still is S/- for a Birchen and s+/- for a BC ,she has Silver or Gold but with a presence of other modifying genes like sort of Melanin etc..........) the reason she is black = Progeny will be =
Cockerels = half way colored ,maybe the hackle and a little part of the lancet or just hackle that all . those colors are from they Sire ,nothing form mama as far as colors because she is black but they will inherit the modifying genes from her.
Pullets = most of them will have a colored hackle .

3) Rooster without a colored hackle or Lancet /saddle ( half way colored ) MATED TO Hen with a colored hackle = progeny will be =
Cockerels = half of them will have a colored hackle ,saddle and lancet .the other half will be half way colored .
Pullets = most of them will be black .only few with a spotted hackle or just around the head and the upper part of the neck .

4) Rooster fully black ( presence of modifying/ Inhibitor gene s ) MATTED TO Hen with a colored hackle . progeny will be =
Cockerels = half black and half half way colored
Pullets = all black

those Black progeny ( Pullets or Cockerels ) are still gold or Silver carriers but the modifying genes are interfering with the expression of it .
THEY ARE NOT PURE BLACK .

next time we talk about the Autossomal Red Ar responsible for the color of the ears tufts . shoulders and upper chest for the Rooster . the ears tufts and spotted chest for the Hen .

for the chooks to be well colored both of those genes Sex linked and Autossomal red have to present .

chooks man

Just saved this to my hard drive. Great information Chooks man! Thanks a lot for explaining that!