International Black Copper Marans Thread - Breeding to the SOP

[Tstraub]

Is this rooster mixed?

As far as I know he is pure BMC. I bought 2 dozen hatching eggs 12 BCM and 12 other breeds for $20 total so I wasn’t expecting high quality birds. I just wanted a colorful egg basket. He hatched from an egg that was labeled as BCM.

 

[chickengr]

black and black copper are 2 different varieties. some bcm are over melanized and look black. some bcm roos have a halo. they are still bcm.

 

[MayBerg]

black and black copper are 2 different varieties. some bcm are over melanized and look black. some bcm roos have a halo. they are still bcm.

Oh my goodness, I am so confused now. So this chicken is a BLACK COPPER MARANS with wrong feather color/halo?
I am not trying to be disrespectful. I am reading the thread and taking notes and so far I have seen people culling the wrong feather color. So I am guessing this roo is BCM but not SOP variety?

 

[MayBerg]

Nope I caught it... Maybe

These are 2 separate varieties Chooks man has that I believe your thinking of.

Chooks man has (I believe, I'd have to look back).....Black Marans and Black Coppers and each has their own Standard.

I don't think he was producing a black line from his Black Coppers because they wouldn't be pure not conforming to either standard, (Black Marans or BCM) unless he was doing it just for fun...I can't recall seeing any of these from him, tho.
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong here, but Betty is an over melanized Black Copper that doesn't adhere to the BCM Standard and she cannot in no way be called a Black Marans because she's hiding the copper. (Recessive?) So she's still a Black Copper, and not a Black Marans.

Hope I'm explaining that correctly.

As far as your question to me? No, I'm breeding my Black Coppers to SOP. If I decided I wanted an all black line, I would get pure Black Marans.

If an all black roo was useful to me, I could see it being fun to have but at the moment I'm trying to get my stock towards SOP, where an under colored or all black rooster would be useful for over colored hens to correct their progeny... whereas I'm trying to correct Kongs over coloring and this is where Betty fits in. I'm opposite.

Too much going on in that coop to have any fun...


And of course also trying to get the BBS Silver flock established.

I understand. I get it. I thought the black maran was a BCM that did not have much Copper. Good to know. I am taking notes for when I can get land.
Too much going on in this coop here too.

 

[wrathsfarm]

I understand. I get it. I thought the black maran was a BCM that did not have much Copper. Good to know. I am taking notes for when I can get land.
Too much going on in this coop here too.

Awesome... I haven't re read the thread again in a while... I need to when the chaos slows to a crawl.

 

[Tstraub]

Oh my goodness, I am so confused now. So this chicken is a BLACK COPPER MARANS with wrong feather color/halo?
I am not trying to be disrespectful. I am reading the thread and taking notes and so far I have seen people culling the wrong feather color. So I am guessing this roo is BCM but not SOP variety?

I’m still learning myself but I’ll try to explain as best I know. When you are breeding to SOP you need to continually make pairing to keep your birds as close to standard as possible. Things like breeding a bird that is too tall to one that is to short or breeding an over colored bird to an under colored bird to try to land somewhere in the middle

There are several common natural faults that can come up with Marans because they were traits that existed in the original wild birds that were used to create Marans. The ones I know of are yellow halo in heckles, white feathers just forward of the tail, and high tail angle. These are faults that should be watched for and corrected but don’t necessarily indicate cross breeding

Unnatural faults that would indicate cross breeding are extra toes, yellow legs, head crests, ear tufts, beard feathers, and pea combs. These traits were not in the original breeds used to create the Marans line

My rooster with the halo is most likely the result of someone that was breeding only for large numbers of birds and not paying attention to the SOP

If any of this is incorrect someone please correct me.

 

[Helloyou89]

It sounds like he's doing really good so far, but he's only 11 weeks old. Correct?
Long ways to go yet with chaos coming. Just keep doing what your doing for now and watch him.
At some point you may see that his advances towards the older girls aren't working so he goes after the pullets. This is the time where you may have to separate if it gets too aggressive. Or you may not have to.
You may also see him try to mate the pullets but the hens will chase him off or knock him off the pullets (their training him)
For now tho, he's acting pretty chill and that's a good sign.
Yes, your pullets are establishing the pecking order in their sub flock. And then around POL (point of lay) or after, they should start upsetting the hens pecking order as they meld into one flock.
Right now your cockerel is just playing along but realize he's not part of the pecking order. He's going to break away from the pecking order and man up to oversee the flock and this is the time where the hens will most likely submit to him, most of the time this goes fluently but sometimes a hen can put up a fight, usually it's the head hen not wanting to give up her leadership. Once she submits to him usually the others fall in line and it's over and he becomes the alpha.
Right now all you can do is sit back and watch him as he grows, and try to keep his aggression to a minimum.

Oh no, I just saw him try to mate the silkie pullet I have. (The one on bottom of the pecking order.) I went over there and she seemed fine, no missing feathers or anything. But she’s very local so I heard her squawking and went to see what was going on. Usually she squawks when she’s getting picked on by the others. I just shouted at him to knock it off and he jumped off her. This is the first time, I’ve seen him attempt this behavior and of course, he tried it with the pullet that was the easiest to bully. He’s too chicken to try it with the mature ladies. (No pun intended. )

‘Betty’ stays away from the older hens because they chase him and the young girls away still. It’s almost like I have two cliques. He’s about 15 weeks now. Here’s the picture I took of him late last week. Obviously his hormones are ramping up so I’ll definitely be keeping a close eye on him.

I shouldn’t separate him unless he’s hurting the pullets right? Or would it be better to remove the pullets so he is forced to interact with the older hens more? He’s also getting more distant from me. Before I could easily go up to him and just pick him up…now, he runs from me! I have to chase him, once I do get him, he squawks in protest for a quick second, but as soon as pick him up and hold him, he nestles in my arms like he’s comfy and enough to take a nap. I’m not sure if I should continue to handle him or let him be? I’m thinking if I keep handling him from time to time, he’ll stay friendly?

 

[chickengr]

Oh my goodness, I am so confused now. So this chicken is a BLACK COPPER MARANS with wrong feather color/halo?
I am not trying to be disrespectful. I am reading the thread and taking notes and so far I have seen people culling the wrong feather color. So I am guessing this roo is BCM but not SOP variety?

here people didn't know there were black and bcm so they kept them together. someone must work hard and for years to fix it.

 

[chickengr]

I’m still learning myself but I’ll try to explain as best I know. When you are breeding to SOP you need to continually make pairing to keep your birds as close to standard as possible. Things like breeding a bird that is too tall to one that is to short or breeding an over colored bird to an under colored bird to try to land somewhere in the middle

There are several common natural faults that can come up with Marans because they were traits that existed in the original wild birds that were used to create Marans. The ones I know of are yellow halo in heckles, white feathers just forward of the tail, and high tail angle. These are faults that should be watched for and corrected but don’t necessarily indicate cross breeding

Unnatural faults that would indicate cross breeding are extra toes, yellow legs, head crests, ear tufts, beard feathers, and pea combs. These traits were not in the original breeds used to create the Marans line

My rooster with the halo is most likely the result of someone that was breeding only for large numbers of birds and not paying attention to the SOP

If any of this is incorrect someone please correct me.

halo usually means wheaten marans crossed with bcm some time in the past. wheaten roos have halo.

 

[Tstraub]

halo usually means wheaten marans crossed with bcm some time in the past. wheaten roos have halo.

Thank you. I had never heard this before. After reading your post I did an image search wheaten marans. Looking at BCM and wheaten Marans side by side really makes me wonder how I never made that connection before. I read somewhere that it went all the way back to red jungle fowl and I just believed it to be true. The wheaten Marans does sound a lot more likely