Is 20% protein too much for pullets and laying hens?

[Amelise]

Haven't had much trouble with with internal laying or double yolking and so forth yet, but my flock is <1 yr old, and small (15 hens).

Internal laying is one of my irrational fears, thankfully I’ve never experienced it in my flock and I don’t have any breeds prone to it.

 

[igorsMistress]

I use Purina flock raiser with calcium on the side. I also like the fact that I can give a treat and not cut their protein much. This is particularly handy during the summer when they get more fruits and veg. I can also add a lower protein pigeon feed as scratch but not reduce protein much, if at all when I add some mealworms to it.

 

[MysteryChicken]

I feed 20% - 22% protein. Nutrena Naturewise All Flock Pellets, Purina Flock Raiser, & Nutrena Meat Bird for added protein for molting season, & to help fatten up any birds for butchering.

@U_Stormcrow, what's the maximum protein level that is safe for chickens?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I did not know this! Thank you!

So how much is too much?

Most of the studies trying to induce dietary related health problems that I've read were in the mid 40% or higher for protein, while similar gout conditions could be induced at MUCH lower rates of calcium inclusion (6-8%, and just 4% for roosters and preadolescent birds of both genders). In fact the recommend for some broilers includes feeds at 26% (briefly - but broilers aren't destined for long lives...) That said, there aren't many studies, because protein is expensive - most studies are focused on how little protein can be offered to reach minimum levels of production/survival, not how much before it causes problems. If chickens weren't used as human analogues for studying urolithiasis and related maladies, we probably wouldn't have even the few we do have.

That said, I avoid feeds over 24%, because protein rates over 24% are associated with increased incidence of angel wing in water fowl generally, but particularly in ducks (which I have). It may relate to some of the leg problems Cx are famed for as well, but its both not studied in Cx AND Cx have unique genetics where long term health concerns are entirely disregarded.

Anecdotally, I feed my birds 24% protein for roughly their first 8 weeks of life to ensure they get an excellent start (its really the amino acids I'm looking for, Met and Lys) before dropping them to 20% when they join the main flock. Helps with initial growth/weight, good joint development, and excellent intestinal development (which contributes tofeed efficiency long term. Has some (tiny) and largely not understood/well explained benefit to their immune system as well, which persists even after reducing their daily protein intake.

 

[Amelise]

Could this be what chicken poop looks like when they get a good amount of protein? My adult hen (Henrietta) has always drank a lot of water and her poops look weird often. They used to look more water but now after I de wormed her last month they look like this. Is this a normal poop? She doesn’t have ball-shaped poops often. (Pretty sure the purplish red specks in it are the granite grit I give her)

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Internal laying is one of my irrational fears, thankfully I’ve never experienced it in my flock and I don’t have any breeds prone to it.

Usually the result of excess fat in the diet (one of the concerns with BOSS and BSFL), NOT excess protein!

 

[Amelise]

Usually the result of excess fat in the diet (one of the concerns with BOSS and BSFL), NOT excess protein!

Ohh, ok! So internal laying is more likely to result from, say, giving them too much scratch very often.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Ohh, ok! So internal laying is more likely to result from, say, giving them too much scratch very often.

EXACTLY

 

[Amelise]

Could this be what chicken poop looks like when they get a good amount of protein? My adult hen (Henrietta) has always drank a lot of water and her poops look weird often. They used to look more water but now after I de wormed her last month they look like this. Is this a normal poop? She doesn’t have ball-shaped poops often. (Pretty sure the purplish red specks in it are the granite grit I give her)

Forgot to say, I switched her feed from layer pellets to Purinas flock raiser about 3 weeks ago.

 

[Painted Calls]

Most of the studies trying to induce dietary related health problems that I've read were in the mid 40% or higher for protein, while similar gout conditions could be induced at MUCH lower rates of calcium inclusion (6-8%, and just 4% for roosters and preadolescent birds of both genders). In fact the recommend for some broilers includes feeds at 26% (briefly - but broilers aren't destined for long lives...) That said, there aren't many studies, because protein is expensive - most studies are focused on how little protein can be offered to reach minimum levels of production/survival, not how much before it causes problems. If chickens weren't used as human analogues for studying urolithiasis and related maladies, we probably wouldn't have even the few we do have.

That said, I avoid feeds over 24%, because protein rates over 24% are associated with increased incidence of angel wing in water fowl generally, but particularly in ducks (which I have). It may relate to some of the leg problems Cx are famed for as well, but its both not studied in Cx AND Cx have unique genetics where long term health concerns are entirely disregarded.

Anecdotally, I feed my birds 24% protein for roughly their first 8 weeks of life to ensure they get an excellent start (its really the amino acids I'm looking for, Met and Lys) before dropping them to 20% when they join the main flock. Helps with initial growth/weight, good joint development, and excellent intestinal development (which contributes tofeed efficiency long term. Has some (tiny) and largely not understood/well explained benefit to their immune system as well, which persists even after reducing their daily protein intake.

I do 18-20% their whole life. Currently doing 19% I believe and have been for some time.

Thanks for the info - much appreciated as always!