Is it worth the extra $$

Have never seen extra packaging in chicken feed or produce etc., but I but local produce. I can get three kinds of organic feed for $25 versus 16-18 for regular. I always wonder why people try to dissuade others from buying organic. To each his own.
I wasnt trying to persuade anyone one way or other. If it sounded that way it wasn’t my intention. My thought was mainly on packaging not organic or not. Maybe I wasn’t clear. I don’t buy organic asides from getting a bunch of bananas on accident. If that’s what you prefer that’s what I want you to buy.
I would also want everyone that have means to recycle or reuse as much as possible because if you don’t agree litter and pollution is a problem your just flat out wrong.
 

Kirkwooder

Songster
Jan 17, 2021
157
533
121
Cohocton NY
I don't generally do this but I feel I need to get the soap box out here and do a little preaching.

It is very apparent that many who have posted here have never spent any time at all even talking to anyone involved in the production of the feeds they are using, to say nothing about knowing what actually may be going on in the field the stuff was grown in.

Farmers don't liberally dose huge fields of grain with truckloads of needless chemicals just because they have them laying around. To say that all crops are soaked with this or that deathly poisonous chemical unnecessarily, is just plain absurd. A typical acre of corn will net the very best farmer only a meager profit most years. To ad any treatment to that crop costs a fortune, not only in the cost of the chemical itself, but fuel for the tractor, the manpower to operate the tractor, and how about that tractor itself. Most cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. A simple oil change on one of these new beasts could cost well over a thousand dollars! The less that tractor runs the longer it lasts and the longer the time between oil changes. To be a successful farmer today one must be and incredibly good businessman. Wasting money on unneeded crop treatments is just poor business practice. Most farmers use the bare minimum of treatment possible to get the best crop they can from their acreage. Only treating for common diseases and infestations as needed. To do otherwise is just wasting money.

Furthermore, an "organic" label on anything, doesn't mean it doesn't contain "forbidden" chemicals. Most organic certification organisations care more about collecting their fees for membership than insuring compliance with their own made up standards. One organisation that we signed up for asked us to send them a $1200 check and they would send out an inspector. We sent the check and the inspector never came, but the bill for $89.00 surely came every month. Yet we were certified organic as long as we kept paying we could use the "certified" label. We could have been growing on a chemical landfill and spraying truck loads of pesticides for all they knew. We grew our stuff organically, but only because we wanted to. Not because anyone attempted to insure that we were in compliance.

Chickens can't read, but the people buying their feed surely can. Labeling a product this or that is a sales technique. Buying something because of the label is a good place to start. The proof is in the pudding though. When feeding your flock the feed in question, are they healthier, happier, and more productive with the higher price feed? Enough so to justify the extra cost? Are you really that concerned about the productivity of your backyard flock? Is six eggs a week enough to keep you happy with your hen or will only two be enough?

The cold hard truth is that with populations growing and less and less farmland feeding more and more people, modern farming practices are needed to feed us all. Growing organically is great, but the plain and simple truth is, it is not productive enough to feed the masses. Hopefully science will advance enough to make organic farming practices productive enough to feed us all. Hopefully they will be more widely accepted when they are discovered.

I'll step down now and prepare for my beating.
 
Dec 28, 2020
635
1,627
226
I don't generally do this but I feel I need to get the soap box out here and do a little preaching.

It is very apparent that many who have posted here have never spent any time at all even talking to anyone involved in the production of the feeds they are using, to say nothing about knowing what actually may be going on in the field the stuff was grown in.

Farmers don't liberally dose huge fields of grain with truckloads of needless chemicals just because they have them laying around. To say that all crops are soaked with this or that deathly poisonous chemical unnecessarily, is just plain absurd. A typical acre of corn will net the very best farmer only a meager profit most years. To ad any treatment to that crop costs a fortune, not only in the cost of the chemical itself, but fuel for the tractor, the manpower to operate the tractor, and how about that tractor itself. Most cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. A simple oil change on one of these new beasts could cost well over a thousand dollars! The less that tractor runs the longer it lasts and the longer the time between oil changes. To be a successful farmer today one must be and incredibly good businessman. Wasting money on unneeded crop treatments is just poor business practice. Most farmers use the bare minimum of treatment possible to get the best crop they can from their acreage. Only treating for common diseases and infestations as needed. To do otherwise is just wasting money.

Furthermore, an "organic" label on anything, doesn't mean it doesn't contain "forbidden" chemicals. Most organic certification organisations care more about collecting their fees for membership than insuring compliance with their own made up standards. One organisation that we signed up for asked us to send them a $1200 check and they would send out an inspector. We sent the check and the inspector never came, but the bill for $89.00 surely came every month. Yet we were certified organic as long as we kept paying we could use the "certified" label. We could have been growing on a chemical landfill and spraying truck loads of pesticides for all they knew. We grew our stuff organically, but only because we wanted to. Not because anyone attempted to insure that we were in compliance.

Chickens can't read, but the people buying their feed surely can. Labeling a product this or that is a sales technique. Buying something because of the label is a good place to start. The proof is in the pudding though. When feeding your flock the feed in question, are they healthier, happier, and more productive with the higher price feed? Enough so to justify the extra cost? Are you really that concerned about the productivity of your backyard flock? Is six eggs a week enough to keep you happy with your hen or will only two be enough?

The cold hard truth is that with populations growing and less and less farmland feeding more and more people, modern farming practices are needed to feed us all. Growing organically is great, but the plain and simple truth is, it is not productive enough to feed the masses. Hopefully science will advance enough to make organic farming practices productive enough to feed us all. Hopefully they will be more widely accepted when they are discovered.

I'll step down now and prepare for my beating.
This is all very true. I grow and consume a lot of organic food.

Organic farming is just for rich customers at this point while we figure out best practices.
 

Cindy in PA

Crowing
12 Years
Jul 8, 2008
2,727
1,047
401
Fleetwood, PA
I don't generally do this but I feel I need to get the soap box out here and do a little preaching.

It is very apparent that many who have posted here have never spent any time at all even talking to anyone involved in the production of the feeds they are using, to say nothing about knowing what actually may be going on in the field the stuff was grown in.

Farmers don't liberally dose huge fields of grain with truckloads of needless chemicals just because they have them laying around. To say that all crops are soaked with this or that deathly poisonous chemical unnecessarily, is just plain absurd. A typical acre of corn will net the very best farmer only a meager profit most years. To ad any treatment to that crop costs a fortune, not only in the cost of the chemical itself, but fuel for the tractor, the manpower to operate the tractor, and how about that tractor itself. Most cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. A simple oil change on one of these new beasts could cost well over a thousand dollars! The less that tractor runs the longer it lasts and the longer the time between oil changes. To be a successful farmer today one must be and incredibly good businessman. Wasting money on unneeded crop treatments is just poor business practice. Most farmers use the bare minimum of treatment possible to get the best crop they can from their acreage. Only treating for common diseases and infestations as needed. To do otherwise is just wasting money.

Furthermore, an "organic" label on anything, doesn't mean it doesn't contain "forbidden" chemicals. Most organic certification organisations care more about collecting their fees for membership than insuring compliance with their own made up standards. One organisation that we signed up for asked us to send them a $1200 check and they would send out an inspector. We sent the check and the inspector never came, but the bill for $89.00 surely came every month. Yet we were certified organic as long as we kept paying we could use the "certified" label. We could have been growing on a chemical landfill and spraying truck loads of pesticides for all they knew. We grew our stuff organically, but only because we wanted to. Not because anyone attempted to insure that we were in compliance.

Chickens can't read, but the people buying their feed surely can. Labeling a product this or that is a sales technique. Buying something because of the label is a good place to start. The proof is in the pudding though. When feeding your flock the feed in question, are they healthier, happier, and more productive with the higher price feed? Enough so to justify the extra cost? Are you really that concerned about the productivity of your backyard flock? Is six eggs a week enough to keep you happy with your hen or will only two be enough?

The cold hard truth is that with populations growing and less and less farmland feeding more and more people, modern farming practices are needed to feed us all. Growing organically is great, but the plain and simple truth is, it is not productive enough to feed the masses. Hopefully science will advance enough to make organic farming practices productive enough to feed us all. Hopefully they will be more widely accepted when they are discovered.

I'll step down now and prepare for my beating.
Good point, however I think the OP way back was talking about the drying of grains for harvest, by using round up. As far as farmers not just pouring stuff on their fields that is probably also true in most cases. I have lived next to rented fields for 37 years & the previous farmer planted Roundup ready corn & soy. The # of noxious weeds we have now, compared with 37 years ago is amazing. They spray until the crop is big enough & then the weeds take over & go to seed in the fall. I have had roundup kill my garden, because he sprayed on windy days. He was ignorant, may he RIP, LOL. Since Roundup is no longer working they have gone back to more toxic chemicals of the past. They put soybean oil, that used to be a waste in all our foods. They get paid by the government. Thankfully the 10 acres near me will no longer be in production, since the death of my FIL. We have been slowly planting fields for wildlife. I never buy organic from big Ag. I shop local for most things. End of rant.
 

Ascholten

Songster
Dec 12, 2020
283
1,007
156
Jacksonville, FL
Nobody is saying NOT to buy it as far as I can tell here, just that some don't believe it's worth the much higher premium one pays for it. Also mentioned that you can get local feed stores / grain mills that will sell bulk feed that is probably just as good if not better than the organic, just not labeled as such because they can't afford the politics around that oh so special label and the cost to get into the Big O Boys Club. Each person's situation is different though. If you live in a more rural area you can probably find feed stores and such to get the good local stuff. If you are a city slicker who happens to have a few boids in the back yard, then a 45 mile trip to the boonies probably is not worth it, and the TSC stuff will have to do.

One thing I did notice about some of the local feed from one source out here, it was loaded with weevils. Didn't really bother me, and I figured the chickie pooh's would not mind a few bugs either in their food, after all it'd save them from having to run around scratching them up! I just wish theyd leave the gecko's alone, those keep the skeeters down.

As for extra packaging, most of the stuff Ive seen at TSC etc is that plasticised stuff. yes it makes good wind breaks, or window coverer uppers for when it gets frosty out. If you can get paper, while it's nice, unfortunately it's got all that purty packaging and pictures and stuff on it so is kind of a booger to compost with all it's paints and whatnot.

Aaron
 

U_Stormcrow

Crowing
Jun 7, 2020
1,614
3,449
286
North FL Panhandle Region / Wiregrass
Some packaging is temporarily changed due to COVID, too. When the pandemic struck and businesses started closing at gov't order, the manufacturers of some packaging types weren't considered "essential businesses". Leaving other essential businesses unable to ship essential products until they could re-source, and sometimes re-tool their packaging lines.

Why did some packaging types get the nod, and others didn't? Pure politics. I think we can all agree the average gov't worker doesn't know the difference between a silicon-impregnated paper bag, a plastic bag, and a woven tyvek-like material bag, or why one bag might be better than another, depending on the product contained within.
 
I’ve been around agriculture my whole life. Although I’m not very old (38) I’ve seen both beneficial and negative changes.
The increases in input cost haven’t matched the prices given at market for harvested crops. Thus most farmers are one disaster year away from bankruptcy in my area at least. The ones I know wouldn’t dream of adding any extra costs to their operations to be able to add an organic stamp.
Farming has basically turned into a slow moving crapshoot.
 

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