Isaac & Delaware Girls @ 18 Weeks( first chick! PIC)

[seriousbill]

Quote:
No, that's not bad--it's not that smeared, but the black bars could be just little heavier, IMO, for breeding. And no, you don't want solid black in the tail, either. What you want is crisp black, dominant over the white, no smearing. The thing is, a rooster with too much black will throw some sons with too little black. A rooster with too little black will be much more likely throw birds with too little black (depending, of course, on what you're breeding him with). But, black, generally speaking, tends to fade in Delawares as you go down generations. I've got sons out of George with very light barring. Hmm, maybe some pictures are in order. Hang on...

Edited for clarity.

 

[speckledhen]

Janet, if I may, this was one of the cockerels I culled early on for body size first of all, then the too-light tail barring. I think he is a good example of what you were talking about. He's ten weeks old in this picture.

 

[seriousbill]

Yes, thanks, Cyn!

I was having trouble sifting through all these folders for what I want and was not relishing the thought of going and chasing little roos around the yard!

 

[speckledhen]

This is turning out to be a very educational thread regarding the Delaware breed. Hope folks who are thinking of breeding them will check it out. Janet, as always, I appreciate your years of experience with them and your willingness to educate and offer advice.

 

[seriousbill]

Well, I'm still learning myself, Cyn.

I just know some of the mistakes I made early on that got me into issues with tail barring and coloring generally. The light, smeared tails are easy to breed, a dime a dozen. I've already culled several for those flaws this year. Precise barring and crisp black markings are harder to come by.

 

[TimG]

Let me see if I understand desirable tails.

Boys: black dominant over white, crisp barring, no solid black.

Girls: some solid black, no barring.

By "black dominant over white" do you mean that there is more black than white? Or, is it that black covers the white rather than white covering the black? Not that I'd know how to tell which was "over" the other. So, I'm guessing this means predominantly black.

By "crisp" you mean strong borders going from black to white sharply rather than black fading into gray and then white.

 

[seriousbill]

Quote:
Right.

Yes, I mean more black than white.

Yes, "crisp" means good delineation, strong borders, but I was also thinking of it in terms of standing out starkly because it is a deep black and not a gray.

Isaac does not have quite as much white as he needs, but he will throw sons that have more white than he does--easily. Going the other way around is harder. And, one of the hardest things about breeding Delawares is getting good black in the females' tails. With a rooster like him, you have a much better shot at it. I think he's not a show bird himself, but he has excellent breeding potential. IMO, when you're breeding for different traits in the males and the females--like barring in the tails vs. lack thereof, you've got to plan ahead with your stock to get what you want.

 

[speckledhen]

And as Janet and I were discussing, I sorted through 15 Delaware cockerels to get one the quality of Isaac, so even when you start with near show quality parents, you still have to hatch alot of chicks to get the truly shining examples of the breed. That's what breeding toward the standard entails.

 

[TNpoultrybreeder]

Quote:
Hi Seriousbill
I guess you can take ones that are overly dominant in areas and cross them with ones that lack the same markings and hope for something in the middle. To me the best birds are from parent stock that has there Standard markings. Is George the father of Isaac they show the same tail coloring. You ask is the barring smeared and irregular ? In the Delaware the barring is irregular. You ask does the bird have black markings and not a muddy grey ? Pete is not as dark as the Standard calls for but I think he is one of the nicest Delaware males I have seen. Leg color is something that I think in some chicks changes as the chicks grow. If my chicks was hatched with muddy greensish legs that would have been bad but they were very yellow and turn a greenish yellow at about three week old. Each week there legs get more yellow and I am sure there very yellow legs will return in a few weeks. If you cull and breed on all the points you posted above I would love to see more pictures of your Delawares as they should be very close to the Standard.

TNpoultrybreeder

TN, the barring is "irregular" as in not a straight line at all points-- at some, it has a chevron shape, but that doesn't mean jagged, crooked lines--if you look at the standard illustration you can see that it should have a lot of precision at the edges. Are you referring to the Pete I culled a few years ago? I forgot I still had his pic up on the Del board, LOL. Pete was far inferior to George in just about every way, and I've had several experienced breeders and a poultry judge or two tell me so. Now, I know people have their own opinions and tastes as far as chickens go, but I go by what the experienced breeders and the folks judging the shows tell me

I'm very well aware that leg color changes, and I'm very well aware that green-legged chicks hatch with yellow legs that go green and then pale yellow as they grow. But, I suppose this is all pretty new to you. I am culling and breeding to the points listed above. I've never claimed my birds were anything but a work in progress; however, I can tell you this--as with any destination, you need to know how to get there. There are some things that I've learned the hard way that I try to pass along to others. Of course, they can take it or leave it, just as they like.

Hi Seriousbill
If you read the Standard when it says anything about barring it has irregular in front , so I will breed for irregular barring. As for leg coloring you can see the change my chicks are making week by week. I think you have a great amount of knowledge on the Delaware breed and I take your advice on many points of the Delaware breed. It is sad that some will only give advice but will not take advice. One more thing I am by far not new to this breeding poultry thing

, it has been apart of my life and will be apart of the rest of my life.

TNpoultrybreeder

 

[seriousbill]

Quote:
Yes, that is very true

I'm not new to it either--nor am I new to Delawares--every breed is different.

Yes, you can read that it says "irregular" in the text of the standard--then you look at the picture to see what it *means*.

Do as you like--I recommend it--it's what I do too

Cheers.