Isaac & Delaware Girls @ 18 Weeks( first chick! PIC)

[seriousbill]

Well, er, anyway, congrats on the eggs, Cyn

I think that's where this thread was going before it went off on this tangent...

 

[speckledhen]

Yes, I'd like to get the thread back on track, thanks, Janet. I'm very pleased. Phoebe's egg she gave me today was a nice size, very hatchable.

TN, it's obvious that you've missed my point entirely here. Not sure what else I can say to make it plainer, so I'll just let it go.

 

[walkswithdog]

Standards can be misinterpeted, especially when you're new to the breed and don't know how judges and people in the breed view the interpetation. I'd take a serious breeder's opinion, and I do, in regards my birds over a written word every day.

Breeders have lived with, bred and shown the birds and seen what actually happens when they reproduce. And nature never goes simply and directly to a goal.

Five people read a standard, look at pictures or sketches and see different things. Live with, work with and show a breed and things gel.

I've had people tell me a seriously faulted partridge rock is gorgeous, because they missed proper interpetation of the sections on color of hackles, or a feather feature. They read the standard - they missed the point.

I have birds from all three forms of sources for Dels, you can tell immediately which is which. Thanks to Janet and Cyn and owning all three, I can clearly tell the difference between hatchery and breeder and heritage quality birds. Including the obvious effort of years.

In person, in front of the judges, in reality, the SOP becomes real, what it actually means becomes apparent, and someone like Janet knows what the different faults already reproduce.

I would like to avoid mistakes and nature's whims that I can, by actually listening to someone who has been in the breed for years.

And I know better than to look at my hatchery birds and try to understand the standard through them - they're so far from the standard it's would be like trying to make apples into oranges. My hatchery birds are all under-sized. I still cannot point to the biggest of those and say - that is proper sized because it is the biggest that I have. It's not. It's just the closest I come. I cannot look at each tail faulted bird and decide that that one is correct, because it is the least faulted.

While that might be the only choice I had, and it's not wrong, I'd never presume to pass them off as other than they are, seriously faulted birds I need to work up from with the advice and help and input of breeders actually working the breed.

From people who have lived with the Standard, worked with it, bred for it. Who understand the inheritance of traits they SEE, good and bad. I can't see any sense in reading an SOP and telling a breeder of excellent birds, what it means when you've never shown in the breed.

<shaking head>

And my girls are another weekend closer to lay - yay.

 

[speckledhen]

Thanks, Cher. That's what I was trying to say with complete lack of eloquence. Anyway, DH found a Delaware pullet egg under the roost first thing this morning, so I think I have another layer starting up. Here it is next to a medium size Ameraucana egg for comparison.

 

[seriousbill]

Where is the embarrassed smiley--we need one of those, y'know? LOL. I just want to be clear here that I've never shown my birds either--I never thought they were good enough. But I have been to shows, talked to people, asked for advice. I think these things are necessary, and I'd recommend them for anyone starting out. Okay, now, back to our regularly scheduled programming

Nice egg, Cyn! Those gals are really coming along.

 

[speckledhen]

Not bad, having possibly two out of four of the pullets laying at 19 weeks old. Kira, if I remember, laid about 22 or 23 weeks old.

 

[walkswithdog]

That's a nice size for a pullet egg Cyn.

Janet, I know you don't show but I did know you went to shows and talked to people even further along in the breed.

Heck, it's the only way to learn with any kind of efficiency. I won't have anything show worthy for awhile either but I expect to keep working toward it, and learning from those that do, and those who have been at it longer than I.

Learning everything first hand and making all those mistakes again myself - I'd really rather not do.

I did the same in Shepherds. What the pedigree says, what the standard says and what the dog is, can be three very different things. And where someone untrained sees a beautiful dog, I see a hot mess or a ticking time bomb.

Breeders know, they've been there, they're flat useful people to consult if they care about the breed.

 

[TNpoultrybreeder]

Quote:
Hi walkswithdogs
The Standard is very easy to understand so that each breeder can breed to it and not copy one persons ways and ideas on how to breed poultry. If you dont care for me asking what stock did Luciano , Gallant and Goofus come from. I have never shown the Delaware breed that is true but in reading the Standard I know that the three males above have faults ( bad markings & bad combs). No breeder has to tell me that the Standard does.

TNpoultrybreeder

 

[speckledhen]

I'm going to try this one more time.

The Standard tells you what you are striving for, but it does not tell you how to breed to get there. That is where a breeder's experience comes in. If you just look at the Standard, then throw out all the ones who do not meet it on every point, you will be left with nothing and have to start completely over. Experience helps to know which ones to keep, which ones to cull and how to bring out the best in your matings, which rooster with which hen will likely give you a chick better than the sum of the parents. That is what the Standard will not tell you. I don't know how to make that any plainer than that.

No one said to throw out the Standard and only rely on breeders for all your information. And I dont understand why the anger here. I started this thread to showcase the progress of my flock as they developed, not to start some huge verbal sparring match. And just criticizing without adding anything constructive doesn't help anyone.

 

[EweSheep]

I've seen some hatchery (MM) Delawares and they dont look anything like your Delawares. The barrings on the cockerals were awful, some were smutty colored, not clearly defined barred and black points. They look like Colombians with some barring patterns running off and on on the feathers. Impressed? No, I was NOT! But it was a good 4H project and it was the only Delaware cockeral there at the local 4H. his body was not of heavy stature, it was more of a V shape like a Leghorn type, in draft style.

Boy those Delawares are BIG! Cyn, are they bigger than your biggest BR?