Kill a hawk! Win a $10,000+ fine!

[Moabite]

Your logic is good with me Junkman. I haven't had to kill any hawks, eagles or people yet. But I'm one of those guys who can work with power tools near a hornets nest and it all works out. Respect and manners combined with logic are my most powerful weapons.

Funny thing about people is that they kill more chickens then anything else on the planet. Of course there wouldn't be very many chickens here without us either.

 

[Junkmanme]

Quote:
Very "respectful logic", Moabite !!!

It's a "balance". And the balance shouldn't sway to drastically "off-center". Because then it starts swinging uncontrollably.

-Junkmanme-

 

[Q9]

Quote:
They probably feel the same way about all the humans. The truth is they are beneficial birds and, because they migrate, are Federally protected. What you may think are "PLENTY" may just be a collection from someplace else moving through. Actually they are rare in a lot of their former range due to DDT and habitat loss.

Slightly off topic, but DDT has nothing to do with it. It's a well-documented fact at this point that DDT is almost completely harmless (despite the famous "studies," which were rigged), thanks to a magical organic device known to science as the excretory system.

Contrary to popular myth, DDT does not "build up" at all, and has had no discernable effect on birds of prey.

That said... what I call living in harmony with nature basically involves ignoring critters, provided they don't attack.

Here's what I don't get - since when is a freakin' hawk worth $10,000? If it is attacking your animals, it should be legal to AT LEAST give it a nice spanking with a BB or pellet gun. My own feeling is that if they have been killing livestock, you should be allowed to shoot the thing. We do it with coyotes, possums, and raccoons. Just because they're prettier doesn't mean that they're less of a pest.

 

[dacjohns]

Quote:
They probably feel the same way about all the humans. The truth is they are beneficial birds and, because they migrate, are Federally protected. What you may think are "PLENTY" may just be a collection from someplace else moving through. Actually they are rare in a lot of their former range due to DDT and habitat loss.

Slightly off topic, but DDT has nothing to do with it. It's a well-documented fact at this point that DDT is almost completely harmless (despite the famous "studies," which were rigged), thanks to a magical organic device known to science as the excretory system.

Contrary to popular myth, DDT does not "build up" at all, and has had no discernable effect on birds of prey.

That said... what I call living in harmony with nature basically involves ignoring critters, provided they don't attack.

Here's what I don't get - since when is a freakin' hawk worth $10,000? If it is attacking your animals, it should be legal to AT LEAST give it a nice spanking with a BB or pellet gun. My own feeling is that if they have been killing livestock, you should be allowed to shoot the thing. We do it with coyotes, possums, and raccoons. Just because they're prettier doesn't mean that they're less of a pest.

Since I'm feeling lazy and you seem to know will you please direct me towards reliable studies supporting this viewpoint.

 

[Frannabelle]

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[Q9]

Quote:
Since I'm feeling lazy and you seem to know will you please direct me towards reliable studies supporting this viewpoint.

Yes, I'd like to see the "studies" also proving that finding DDT as harmful is rigged. I'm lazy also, so please point me in that direction.

I'm sorry, let me rephrase that - the test itself was not rigged, but the reporting was highly selective about the results published. The scientist, one J. Bitman, put DDT into the birds' diet, but also reduced the calcium. Obviously, this got thinner eggshells. Mr. Bitman then redid the experiment, retaining the DDT but also restoring the calcium. The eggshells were of normal thickness. Only the first test was widely reported, however. And yes, this was THE experiment, and was cited dishonestly by Rachel Carson in Silent Spring, if I'm not mistaken.

Then there's Edmund Sweeney, of the EPA - "The uses [of DDT] under regulations involved here do not have a deleterious effect on freshwater fish, estuarine organisms, wild birds, or other wildlife."

Researcher Joseph Hickey of the University of Wisconsin testified before the EPA that he could not kill robins by overdosing them on DDT because they just passed it through their digestive tracts - in other words, they ate it and then crapped it out. Numerous experiments by the Fish and Wildlife Service and a number of university researchers show that DDT in the diet will not kill birds under field conditions. The only way to kill a vertebrate with DDT is to have it consume obscenely massive amounts of the substance, which could not possibly come anywhere close to happening in the real world.

Audubon Christmas Bird Counts reveal that more birds per observer were counted during the greatest "DDT years." Including several of the birds that it was supposed to be harming.

Professor Gordon Edwards, a leading entomologist, was originally quite pleased with Rachel Carson's Silent Spring. However, he kept noticing gross inaccuracies as well as that most of Carson's scientific sources did not, in fact, support her position. The man eventually became pro-DDT, and would regularly consume DDT during talks, with no adverse effects.

You asked. I answered.

EDIT - Geez, you didn't tell me I'd kill the thread!

Am I THAT creepy?

 

[Frannabelle]

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[Junkmanme]

Quote:
Quote: Yes, I'd like to see the "studies" also proving that finding DDT as harmful is rigged. I'm lazy also, so please point me in that direction.Unquote.

Looks to me like someone "called-a-bluff" but found it wasn't a bluff........so they just "folded" without throwing anything into the "pot".

Is THAT "fair"?

-Junkmanme-

 

[Liamm_1]

Quote:
You're simply just choosing which 'evidence' you care to support. I'd suggest if you feel so strongly about it to feed it to your family. It's harmless, right?

 

[Junkmanme]

Yeah ! Don't confuse me with facts. My mind is made up!