Langshan Thread!!!

[199787]

I am still trying to figure out where the "purplish" egg color thing comes from. I do not see it mentioned in the oldest texts I can find about Langshans, can someone point me in right direction? Is it something that they decided to look at later? I don't think it's something that we should necessarily breed for, the whole "egg color" fads and breeding for that trait has caused some big problems in a lot of breeds and would hate to see Langshans follow that path

From what I've read the plum colored bloom was always supposed to be there and is considered a Croad Langshan traitf, but now it has been lost for the most part in the US. If you can get conformation and the plum egg than why wouldn't you want to bring that back? I agree though, going for the egg color alone wouldn't be beneficial.

Mikala, I do think there is a little plum to those eggs.

Lisa

 

[BGMatt]

From what I've read the plum colored bloom was always supposed to be there and is considered a Croad Langshan traitf, but now it has been lost for the most part in the US.  If you can get conformation and the plum egg than why wouldn't you want to bring that back?  I agree though, going for the egg color alone wouldn't be beneficial.

Mikala, I do think there is a little plum to those eggs.

Lisa

That's just it though, even in old texts like "The Langshan Fowl it's history and characteristics" by A C Croad make no mention of the plum eggs. Which I would have thought they would if it was truly a Langshan trait. Unless I somehow skimmed over it which is possible. I was just hoping if that was the case someone could point me to it (will be rereading soon).

 

[thorleif]

I will disagree with you there, when you say the egg-color is not mentioned in early writings about the breed. In AC Croads book I found mentionings two places straight away. On the top of page 30 she writes: "they were due even in that case to the Langshan parentage, rather than the other.
The Silky also lays a pinkish egg ; and where not brown, that is the colour of the
Langshan's egg". On page 90 you can also find: "Another equally important addition to our ranks is Mr. G. Mander AUender, of the Aylesbury Dairy Company. In
January, 1887, Mr AUender sent an account of the poultry kept
on the Company's farm at Horsham to " Live Stock Journal." He
gave the highest place as a generally useful fowl to the Langshan,
he said they kept them in larger numbers because they found
them on the whole more profitable than any other breed of fowls ;
he pointed out that " although the Langshan did not lay a large
egg, it gave one that was very acceptable, its beautiful and varied
tints rendering it an ornament to the breakfast table."
There are a few other mentionings of the phenomen other places, and in other old boks as well.
When Mikaela first showed me the same photo as you can see a bit earlier in this thread on Facebook, I answered:
" Purple is not the right color, peach is more like it. The color (dusting, like on a plum) is strongest after the egg is laid, and if you collect a few, you will notice you fingertips gets slightly colored. Showing eggs is quite a big sport over here. To breed for egg-color is quite complex, but can be done, if you have enough room to do so, as you usually end up with a lot of strains on your way to do so, especially if you breed birds for showing as well. When you breed for geno-type (which is the all-important way forward to preserve and improve the breed) you will end up with a small number of hens that lay better than the others. You will then notice that a small number of these also lay a more plum-colored egg than others. Very often these are also the best-looking birds for type and stamp. Eye color and under-foot color is very important NEVER to forget in building these strains. Combs and wattles, not so important at that stage of building strains. Just avoid allowing them to become too big. By just breeding from the best stamped hens, that lays best, and also has a fairly good color on the egg, and of course keep the best cocks from the best strains you build up, you will notice improvement in everything, as the genes in the Langshan is VERY strong, and they will kick in more and more often, but it takes time, as nearly nobody has bred like this over the last 100 years. It is easier with blacks than with whites from a white strain. Example: I ignored most smaller faults, and created a strain of whites that fairly regular produced hens that laid an average of 200 eggs a year, and by selective breeding also grew in size, type and fertility. The egg-color was too light, but you could spot that peacy/plumcolor on more and more eggs, even if that was not the aim of building that strain. But the genes are so strong, when you improve the breed as a whole, and keep the old values, it will fall into place. Of course, you shall then breed side-strains that you breed show-birds from, but you will then be using slightly different criteria, because in breeding for showing, you often end up going for pheno-types, and even if you end up with a few stunning individuals, dont get tempted to use them in building your main geno-type strains. You will end up with 6-8-10 strains by starting this, so it is a good idea to involve another person (or more) that wants to breed like you. The American Langshan is clearly bred just like the Croad type, the Modern Langshan was was a different type again, but was true Langshans, just bred systematiccaly for different looks. They looked like they were going to become a main breed, but, they fizzled out over the years, and are now almost disseapeared. All of the above will also be good breeding-systems for the Bantams, but type is even more important here, as they are a new, fairly composite breed, with a fairly small proportion of true Langshan in them, so the genes will not be quite as strong as you find them on the large fowl."
I am sorry I do go on a bit, but I am so passionate about the preservation and improvement of the breed, I hope they will bury a nice Langshan with me when the time comes, that will give the archeologists of the future something to think about?

 

[thorleif]

I will disagree with you there, when you say the egg-color is not mentioned in early writings about the breed. In AC Croads book I found mentionings two places straight away. On the top of page 30 she writes: "they were due even in that case to the Langshan parentage, rather than the other.
The Silky also lays a pinkish egg ; and where not brown, that is the colour of the
Langshan's egg". On page 90 you can also find: "Another equally important addition to our ranks is Mr. G. Mander AUender, of the Aylesbury Dairy Company. In
January, 1887, Mr AUender sent an account of the poultry kept
on the Company's farm at Horsham to " Live Stock Journal." He
gave the highest place as a generally useful fowl to the Langshan,
he said they kept them in larger numbers because they found
them on the whole more profitable than any other breed of fowls ;
he pointed out that " although the Langshan did not lay a large
egg, it gave one that was very acceptable, its beautiful and varied
tints rendering it an ornament to the breakfast table."
There are a few other mentionings of the phenomen other places, and in other old boks as well.
When Mikaela first showed me the same photo as you can see a bit earlier in this thread on Facebook, I answered:
" Purple is not the right color, peach is more like it. The color (dusting, like on a plum) is strongest after the egg is laid, and if you collect a few, you will notice you fingertips gets slightly colored. Showing eggs is quite a big sport over here. To breed for egg-color is quite complex, but can be done, if you have enough room to do so, as you usually end up with a lot of strains on your way to do so, especially if you breed birds for showing as well. When you breed for geno-type (which is the all-important way forward to preserve and improve the breed) you will end up with a small number of hens that lay better than the others. You will then notice that a small number of these also lay a more plum-colored egg than others. Very often these are also the best-looking birds for type and stamp. Eye color and under-foot color is very important NEVER to forget in building these strains. Combs and wattles, not so important at that stage of building strains. Just avoid allowing them to become too big. By just breeding from the best stamped hens, that lays best, and also has a fairly good color on the egg, and of course keep the best cocks from the best strains you build up, you will notice improvement in everything, as the genes in the Langshan is VERY strong, and they will kick in more and more often, but it takes time, as nearly nobody has bred like this over the last 100 years. It is easier with blacks than with whites from a white strain. Example: I ignored most smaller faults, and created a strain of whites that fairly regular produced hens that laid an average of 200 eggs a year, and by selective breeding also grew in size, type and fertility. The egg-color was too light, but you could spot that peacy/plumcolor on more and more eggs, even if that was not the aim of building that strain. But the genes are so strong, when you improve the breed as a whole, and keep the old values, it will fall into place. Of course, you shall then breed side-strains that you breed show-birds from, but you will then be using slightly different criteria, because in breeding for showing, you often end up going for pheno-types, and even if you end up with a few stunning individuals, dont get tempted to use them in building your main geno-type strains. You will end up with 6-8-10 strains by starting this, so it is a good idea to involve another person (or more) that wants to breed like you. The American Langshan is clearly bred just like the Croad type, the Modern Langshan was was a different type again, but was true Langshans, just bred systematiccaly for different looks. They looked like they were going to become a main breed, but, they fizzled out over the years, and are now almost disseapeared. All of the above will also be good breeding-systems for the Bantams, but type is even more important here, as they are a new, fairly composite breed, with a fairly small proportion of true Langshan in them, so the genes will not be quite as strong as you find them on the large fowl."
I am sorry I do go on a bit, but I am so passionate about the preservation and improvement of the breed, I hope they will bury a nice Langshan with me when the time comes, that will give the archeologists of the future something to think about?

 

[PetRock]

I will disagree with you there, when you say the egg-color is not mentioned in early writings about the breed. In AC Croads book I found mentionings two places straight away. On the top of page 30 she writes: "they were due even in that case to the Langshan parentage, rather than the other.
The Silky also lays a pinkish egg ; and where not brown, that is the colour of the
Langshan's egg". On page 90 you can also find: "Another equally important addition to our ranks is Mr. G. Mander AUender, of the Aylesbury Dairy Company. In
January, 1887, Mr AUender sent an account of the poultry kept
on the Company's farm at Horsham to " Live Stock Journal." He
gave the highest place as a generally useful fowl to the Langshan,
he said they kept them in larger numbers because they found
them on the whole more profitable than any other breed of fowls ;
he pointed out that " although the Langshan did not lay a large
egg, it gave one that was very acceptable, its beautiful and varied
tints rendering it an ornament to the breakfast table."
There are a few other mentionings of the phenomen other places, and in other old boks as well.
When Mikaela first showed me the same photo as you can see a bit earlier in this thread on Facebook, I answered:
" Purple is not the right color, peach is more like it. The color (dusting, like on a plum) is strongest after the egg is laid, and if you collect a few, you will notice you fingertips gets slightly colored. Showing eggs is quite a big sport over here. To breed for egg-color is quite complex, but can be done, if you have enough room to do so, as you usually end up with a lot of strains on your way to do so, especially if you breed birds for showing as well. When you breed for geno-type (which is the all-important way forward to preserve and improve the breed) you will end up with a small number of hens that lay better than the others. You will then notice that a small number of these also lay a more plum-colored egg than others. Very often these are also the best-looking birds for type and stamp. Eye color and under-foot color is very important NEVER to forget in building these strains. Combs and wattles, not so important at that stage of building strains. Just avoid allowing them to become too big. By just breeding from the best stamped hens, that lays best, and also has a fairly good color on the egg, and of course keep the best cocks from the best strains you build up, you will notice improvement in everything, as the genes in the Langshan is VERY strong, and they will kick in more and more often, but it takes time, as nearly nobody has bred like this over the last 100 years. It is easier with blacks than with whites from a white strain. Example: I ignored most smaller faults, and created a strain of whites that fairly regular produced hens that laid an average of 200 eggs a year, and by selective breeding also grew in size, type and fertility. The egg-color was too light, but you could spot that peacy/plumcolor on more and more eggs, even if that was not the aim of building that strain. But the genes are so strong, when you improve the breed as a whole, and keep the old values, it will fall into place. Of course, you shall then breed side-strains that you breed show-birds from, but you will then be using slightly different criteria, because in breeding for showing, you often end up going for pheno-types, and even if you end up with a few stunning individuals, dont get tempted to use them in building your main geno-type strains. You will end up with 6-8-10 strains by starting this, so it is a good idea to involve another person (or more) that wants to breed like you. The American Langshan is clearly bred just like the Croad type, the Modern Langshan was was a different type again, but was true Langshans, just bred systematiccaly for different looks. They looked like they were going to become a main breed, but, they fizzled out over the years, and are now almost disseapeared. All of the above will also be good breeding-systems for the Bantams, but type is even more important here, as they are a new, fairly composite breed, with a fairly small proportion of true Langshan in them, so the genes will not be quite as strong as you find them on the large fowl."
I am sorry I do go on a bit, but I am so passionate about the preservation and improvement of the breed, I hope they will bury a nice Langshan with me when the time comes, that will give the archeologists of the future something to think about?

Thank you for this wonderful, informative post, thorleif! We have a few people on the Northern California thread who are interested in Croad Langshans and their plum bloom eggs. I shared a link to this page of our thread on that thread. I hope a few of them join us here!

 

[BGMatt]

Thank you for the info thorleif, I will grab my book and check it out after work. I must have just missed it.

 

[thorleif]

Thanks both, funny yu should mention people from California. Somebody from Californis said in the Croad Langshan News a while back that they recconed there was some Croads down Californis way. I think that they are right, and wrong. You have named them American Langshans, but I have said before, and I say it again, they are virtually the same bird, bred from the same birds, on the two sides of the Atlantic. No doubt, sometimes in the future we will act as a gene-reserve for each other. We tried to "count" Langshans in Europe, and very roughly we believe there is 1.500 - 3.000 Croad Langshans at any given time, and numbers growing. Another thing, Harrison Weir was a poultry-journalist over 100 years ago, and I think his description of the history of the breed is better than AC Croads. When you open the link, click on PDF, it will take a few minutes to open, then save it on your desktop, it is not very big. When you start flicking the pages, the first chapter is about Langshans, so it will nt take you long to start reading. There is a lot of illustrations, and some of them are really good. http://openlibrary.org/works/OL6021925W/The_poultry_book

 

[thorleif]

Thanks both, funny yu should mention people from California. Somebody from Californis said in the Croad Langshan News a while back that they recconed there was some Croads down Californis way. I think that they are right, and wrong. You have named them American Langshans, but I have said before, and I say it again, they are virtually the same bird, bred from the same birds, on the two sides of the Atlantic. No doubt, sometimes in the future we will act as a gene-reserve for each other. We tried to "count" Langshans in Europe, and very roughly we believe there is 1.500 - 3.000 Croad Langshans at any given time, and numbers growing. Another thing, Harrison Weir was a poultry-journalist over 100 years ago, and I think his description of the history of the breed is better than AC Croads. When you open the link, click on PDF, it will take a few minutes to open, then save it on your desktop, it is not very big. When you start flicking the pages, the first chapter is about Langshans, so it will nt take you long to start reading. There is a lot of illustrations, and some of them are really good. http://openlibrary.org/works/OL6021925W/The_poultry_book

 

[Chickengirl1304]

Thank you for this wonderful, informative post, thorleif! We have a few people on the Northern California thread who are interested in Croad Langshans and their plum bloom eggs. I shared a link to this page of our thread on that thread. I hope a few of them join us here!

Yes thanks for the info. I hatched 4 eggs a few weeks ago and have 12 more cooking from a breeder. They're beautiful eggs. I'll post a pic when I get home!

 

[199787]

Thanks both, funny yu should mention people from California. Somebody from Californis said in the Croad Langshan News a while back that they recconed there was some Croads down Californis way. I think that they are right, and wrong. You have named them American Langshans, but I have said before, and I say it again, they are virtually the same bird, bred from the same birds, on the two sides of the Atlantic. No doubt, sometimes in the future we will act as a gene-reserve for each other. We tried to "count" Langshans in Europe, and very roughly we believe there is 1.500 - 3.000 Croad Langshans at any given time, and numbers growing. Another thing, Harrison Weir was a poultry-journalist over 100 years ago, and I think his description of the history of the breed is better than AC Croads. When you open the link, click on PDF, it will take a few minutes to open, then save it on your desktop, it is not very big. When you start flicking the pages, the first chapter is about Langshans, so it will nt take you long to start reading. There is a lot of illustrations, and some of them are really good. http://openlibrary.org/works/OL6021925W/The_poultry_book

Started reading The Poultry Book and it is very interesting. I did not know they did dead and dressed shows back in the day. Some of his ideas are also quite interesting. Like the one about letting a rooster of another breed near your pure hens means she is tainted forever...anyway it is neat to read.