Large Fowl Cochin Thread

[WyandotteTX]

Have to agree wholeheartedly with Rudy. New colors are interesting to look at but are much more work than most people truly understand. I have been breeding an "accepted" breed for over 15 years, SP Wyandotte bantams. Like Rudy mentions, there are so many breeds out there that need dedicated breeders to work with them. I have always been a bantam guy for the most part but I have ventured into LF Buff Wyandottes and also Rose Comb Black Minorcas because I want these plain colors to continue.
John

 

[dak]

Well I'm doing a little of everything. I have Black LF Cochins that I use as a model for everything else I'm doing. I have LF GLCs that I'm working to improve. I have LF Mottled that I'm working with several "well-known" breeders to get accepted. AND I'm working on Buff laced Cochins.

If that is what I want to spend my money on feed for I will. You breed and preserve what you like. I will do the same. The grumpy old curmudgeons of the chicken world can do what they like and complain about those who do not wish to do as they do. When you pay my feed bill, you can tell me what chickens to raise. I will do what holds my interest and makes me happy in my poultry sparse state.

Oh, and I will call my Ameraucanas LAVENDER.

Let the grumpy curmudgeons resume.....

 

[WyandotteTX]

WOW.....you do pay your own feedbill and keep whatever you want, good for you.
I dont believe anyone was being grumpy about what they were saying, was just on observation but if you feel the need to be offended so easily that is unfortunate.
Not to get this thread closed down for no good reason, I will say raise whatever you want, call them whatever you want, this is a free country to do so. We all have different tastes. I think Rudy brought up a valid observation of why so much emphasis is placed upon new varieties? Personally I think it is our current culture to always want what is new and improved and what someone else doesnt have because that somehow makes us feel like we are better than others that do not have those things. Ex: phones, cars, computers, houses etc.....But I digress. I will save the Sociology lesson for another day.


I had LF GL Cochins for a while, got rid of them because I was having to cull 90% of what was hatched......lovely birds though.

 

[mjgigax]

I see the value of both the recognized and the experimental. We need to maintain the quality of the standard of perfection and well as grow or the breeds will stagnate. The more we learn and achieve: the better for chickens.

 

[dak]

Quote:
So what you're saying is that you did not find it very rewarding to work on a recognized, rare variety that you can't win with in the show hall?

 

[Coopa Cabana]

Rudy, Could you please clarify your definition of "adding new varieties to existing breeds"? I think everyone that has responded has taken it to their own particular situation, and I'm interpreting it several different ways. So would all the following examples be considered "adding new varieites to existing breeds":

1) Developing LF Mottled, Columbian, etc (i.e. the varieties are already recognized in Bantam, but not as yet in LF)

2) Developing either and/or both LF and Bantam in varieties already recognized by the APA/ABA, but not yet recognized in either class of Cochins (i.e. Self-Blue)

3) Creating a new "variety" that is not APA/ABA recognized - I think this one is pretty obvious!!

 

[rtroxel]

Quote:
So what you're saying is that you did not find it very rewarding to work on a recognized, rare variety that you can't win with in the show hall?

First Dak, everyone that has been to your site or seen your pictures has said to him/herself: Nice Cochins. No post was ever meant to offend you or anyone else. I simply asked the question: Why? It appears by your first post that you might not have even read my post. There was one person that expressed support for my opinion in a pretty strong tone, but that was just his/her opinion. You freely offered yours and that's great. Unfortunately, you didn't read TX's post correctly because he raises SP Wyandotte bantams in large quantities and culls plenty.

I love good discussion. Hence the question that I knew would get a few people fired up. I get sick and tired of trying to figure out the sexes of someone's 2 week old chicks.......Every once in a while, I have to ask what I consider to be a good question and hope to stir some debate and conversation. Welcome to that conversation!!

 

[dak]

Since this is the LF Cochin thread, I was referring to the Cochin comment. GLCs are in need of much work it seems that since the poster abandoned the variety due to the challenge involved it makes a statement in itself. For a second I thought I was on the Showbirdbid forum.

In addition, I take no credit for the GLCs I have. They were purchased from Mr. Doerr. If any credit is due, it should go to him. I have some that I have hatched this year simply as back-up. My hope, perhap futile, is the Black to GLC cross that I did this year. I am feeding in excess of 40 of these LF splits to cross back together next year. I am well aware that the odds of a GLC with correct color and pattern is 1 in 256. Luckily or not, 3/4s of the f2s can be culled immediately at hatch. It seems to me that the chance to make a real improvement in the GLCs is worth it. My DH who sees the bags of feed come and go does not.

And to finish, I have exhibited champion Dobermans and Australian Cattle dogs for 34 years. I was hoping for a hobby to involve my son in that didn't involve that petty politics and egos that prevail there. Sadly it seems that poultry will not be that hobby. The human element is inescapable.

 

[emptynester]

Since I am relatively new to chickens ( about 7 months) and even newer to LF cochins ( 4 months) I am curious at what age can you judge a chickens " type'. Can you tell early on or do you have to wait until the chicken is fully mature?

 

[rtroxel]

Quote:
Well, I think all of these could apply, at least in my opinion. Let me give you a few examples of things that I would consider at least somewhat ridiculous.

1. Developing Silver Laced Rocks. Rocks have lots of varieties and Wyandottes already have laid claim to the American class' best Silver Laced. Wanting to see an SC Wyandotte with a long, flat back accepted into the SOP seems like a silly idea to me.
2. Partridge (blue partridge, insert random color here) Brahmas, Orpingtons, etc. Again we have an established breed with history, heritage and a very defined style and type. It seems almost sacrilegious to me to add new patterns to these breeds. I would not say the same to breeds like Wyandottes that already have so many colors as part of their heritage. It would be almost like Partridge Leghorns or Silver Laced La Fleche... Are you joking? Maybe Mottled Rhode Island Reds

Okay, I'm being stupid, but I think I make my point.
3. Creating any variety that looks like a cross bred. Basically, I love the fact that well-bred chickens have some of the most beautifully defined patterns in all of the animal kingdom. Where in the wild can you find perfect lacing or penciling? Again, if you're going to undertake the project, don't quit before it looks good! Obviously, as Dak wrote, everyone is going to do whatever he/she wants with his/her money. I just wish people would think about it and make a long-term contribution instead of a short-term whatever.

As I was thinking about this a little, I actually think that the part I like the least is when people cross chickens as if it were just a game. Maybe just an extension of Farmville or some XBox game in real life. I have no problem with dedicated people working with varieties in a dedicated way. I encourage Bo and Dak to work on LF Mottled Cochins. Especially since I know that some show-stomping, kick butt Cochins are going to be the result. Maybe that's it, too. I'm sick of looking at chickens that are so mediocre, almost degrading to the excellence seen in excellent breeding programs throughout the country. And I want to see the absolute beauty of patterns perfected to that level as well.

Again, my purpose is not, has never been, and never will be to tell anyone what to do, how to do it, or why he/she is completely stupid and wrong for doing what he/she is doing. I only want to promote discussion and thought. This is difficult to do if I don't present my own opinions as well.

If you work on a new variety and it never takes off, when you quit, your project is over, unless you find someone interested in your "project birds" who has the same vision that you did. If you improve an existing variety, when you decide you can't do it anymore, it's much more likely that your birds become something that lives on beyond you. Your birds, if you raise enough and good-enough, might become a new strain that lives for a long, long time and contributes to the breed as a whole.