Lavender patterned Isabel duckwing barred - lavender brown cuckoo barred - project and genetic dis

[The Moonshiner]

That is So great! I can't wait to see them. Definitely there is more than one path to get to the barred Isabel. Glad that you brought up Silver and Gold -- because when I look at Mr. Poster Boy Isabella roo, I see a very light wing triangle. He's the guy in the PDF link in the 2nd post. Because that wing triangle is so very white, I would wonder if he had sliver rather than gold on his S-Locus -- or perhaps he was split, since silver is dominant, then silver shows. He is gorgeous and his type is superb (from what I can tell)--- Often poultry judges focus on the type and the plumage is secondary to type (yet still important) and beginners focus on plumage and take years to understand 'type'. The above guy has distinct pattern on the wings - the dark center bar which is diluted by two recessive lavender genes and the red shoulder patch also diluted. The saddle feathers and hackle feathers are very light platinum, and the tail is dark. Perfect to me would have more color in the wing triangle, hackles and saddles. However you just cannot really tell from photos because photos change the appearance of colors. Now my guy, different angle, different light -- not fluffed and buffed for a show photo - and the pens a little wettish that day. His wing triangle is more colorful, more lavender, and that I like. His barring could use some clean up as well as his whole appearance, but he is a respectable example to me. Here he is on a bit dryer day -- and his darker tail looks closer to (yet still not as saturated as) the poster-boy's. Here he is again on top of the 6' fence -- he likes to survey the world from there. The wing triangle is not white like the poster boy. Henk's chicken calculator has a definitive example of the effects, when you click on the "show effect of this Locus" on the right of each row of possible genetics you get an image of how that particular locus affects the chicken's appearance. So your basis - for those who aren't familiar with what Moonshiner is doing, as diagrammed on the chicken calculator would be gold on the left, split silver/gold in the center and silver on the right. Although tiny, the sliver bird has lost the red shoulder. Just for those familiar with Cream Legbars, IMO losing the red shoulder, loses the guarantee that the S-Locus of that paritcular rooster is gold-based. Since cream is a dilution of gold, gold would be required to be a cream legbar -- but that is a long ago discussion from a different era. Above, an artist's rendition of Silver Crele and Gold Crele Leghorns with the chicks in the insert. See how the silver on S-Locus has removed the red shoulder. Of course, the real-life chickens are not identical to the artist concept -- but they really help me. Now, to just get an artist rendition of lavender patterned Isabel duckwing - barred DF!

Here are our silver leghorns.

 

[ChicKat]

Yay for hatchlings!

Congrats!

Thank you! I'm getting nervous now -- since no others have hatched and the day is nearly over.

Sorry its a bad pic.
Excluding the blue chick in the corner the other five are all wild type brown leghorns. The one in the foreground is an isabelle leghorn. The really dark one is a dark brown leghorn and the other three are light brown leghorns.

What beautiful chicks! Thanks for posting.

Here are our silver leghorns.

IMO these sliver leghorns are just gorgeous. Makes you wonder why they are so rare.

Here are some silver and gold crele actual chickens - these are Legbars from 'Dave at home' who's in Australia and gave me permission to post his photos:

so here is the basic 'brown Leghorn' plumage pattern with barring genes added - one for the girl and two for the boy

and next....


You can see in the top picture of the sliver legbar that the females have salmon breast - especially the one behind the roo. IMO Dave also has really beautiful chickens. REgarding 'type' the Leghorn is more graceful and sleek and the Legbar is a bit more chunky and stocky. So Moonshiner's beautiful Silver Leghorns may have a plumage pattern like the silver legbars IF they had barring added.

Here's a close up of how the barring gene affects the neck hackles on the female:

This female has a recessive lavender gene, and a recessive cream gene - so she will have the appearance of a brown leghorn for the most part (except the crest, and that crest is from one crest gene. (remember incomplete dominant). She is from Isabel male and Legbar mother. In fact her Isabel father is the more colorful of the two that I have, and her mother looks like this:



The barring gene is strong in this Cream Legbar -- even though she only has one place-holder for the B/ gene. Her tail shows definite barring, for example. She only could pass this barring gene to her sons - the females from an Isabel male over barred female will not be barred.

This pullet below



This pair is brother and sister. The male was a Cream Legbar and the hen used to produce them was Isabel. So this female has a barring gene Maybe a little hard to see her neck hackles have the same break in the center black stripe that the above Cream Legbar has as opposed to the continuous dark center that the split above the Cream Legbar has. Look at the pullet's tail above and you can see that she is well barred. She would be the equivalent of the gold Legbar, except she has a cresting gene. The male behind her has only 1 barring gene. This pair came from full sized eggs from when the little OEGB that I have suddenly went broody - and the little bantam successfully hatched these two -- and now they ar about 3 times bigger than she is.

Here are their baby pictures from November 2.

Male on the left, female on the right.
All the first Isabel x Lebars were 100% autosexable. That includes Isabel male over Legbar female and Legbar male over Isabel female (however there have only been 8 chicks in that generation.


Back to the split non-barred pullet, she is shown here behind a split male - *who is showing some flashy white in his sickles. that means the pigment distribution was turned off completely while they grew - this is considered undesirable. Looks kind of cool to me, like a racing stripe, but it should be selected away from. Not a good pictue buy behind him, you can see how black her tail looks and that there is no barring.


Why, you may wonder, would this split pullet get so much attention, since all she can contribute to the project is duckwing - (which they all should have), and one lavender gene(which all the next generation hens need to move the project to the goal)?
The reason IS, she is paired with the white-sickle in the tail roo - and she lays blue eggs. Suddenly one of my Legbars went determinedly broody - so last night I took her out of the coop and put her in a pet carrier. Swapperd out 5 eggs the broody was on, and put 5 of this pullet's eggs under the broody. I want to 'test hatch' this roo.
The chances of getting a LPID-B are pretty slim with those 5 eggs. The chicken calculator tells me 1/32 for a female and 1/32 for male, and if I did get a barred male he would only have 1 barring gene because mother pullet would have none to give her son. Still each of these has only 1 cresting gene so I could leave the crest behind with some of their offspring.
Here's broody Legbar -- deep in a trance now





Sweet PDZ (stall dry) is on the floor of the pet carrier -- her shavings and eggs are in a box that has been cut down. She hasn't yet gotten up to eat or drink - and by keeping the PDZ smooth, I can monitor her feed and water trips.
The eggs are blue - and the hatch will test something I want to know about this rooster's offspring. There is a 1/32 chance that a chicken that can move the project forward will result.

Meanwhile, only 1 egg hatched in that incubator thus far.
And today some chicks left to go to their new home:



You can see that at least two of those chicks are males (on the left of the little tupperware tub - based on the big combs at 23 days old)
And these three - one possibly with barring gene - will stay:

 

[ChicKat]

Two more just have hatched and although still wet, I'm pretty sure that one is lavender.

So thus far (excluding the 3 in the incubator)

9 chicks of which 4 are lavender -- 1 lavender may be male (The one toward the front of that previous pict) -- of the 5 browns - perhaps as many as 4 male. Two for sure based on combs -- and they will have 1 lavender female - that I didn't want to breed with the chickdown that may not be e+/e+.

 

[The Moonshiner]

What beautiful chicks! Thanks for posting.  

Thanks for the thread to post on.
See you've got some chicks hatching too. Congrats

IMO these sliver leghorns are just gorgeous.  Makes you wonder why they are so rare.   

Ya I dont see a lot of the silvers around but they are beautiful. I like how the silver and gold works. I've got some projects working and a couple more planned using the silver base.

 

[The Moonshiner]

Here's some of our barred leghorns. They are also silver based so we have a silver based wild type leghorn and a silver based extended black (with barring) leghorn.
They're what im using on my barred isabelle brown egg layer project as well as a few other leghorn projects.
Havent seen many barred leghorns but mine have a great contrast between the single barred and double barred birds as you can see from the pic. Should help with knowing if future males are single gene or double gene. Also think it will be an asset with the clear and easy auto sexing.

 

[ChicKat]

Thanks for the thread to post on.
See you've got some chicks hatching too. Congrats
Ya I dont see a lot of the silvers around but they are beautiful. I like how the silver and gold works. I've got some projects working and a couple more planned using the silver base.

Saw a zebra swallowtail butterfly today -- and you just don't see them as often as tiger swallowtails - however, in some ways the visual impact is the same as gold crele and silver crele to me. Silver takes that red patch out of the birds shoulder.

zebra


tiger -

Here's some of our barred leghorns. They are also silver based so we have a silver based wild type leghorn and a silver based extended black (with barring) leghorn.
They're what im using on my barred isabelle brown egg layer project as well as a few other leghorn projects.
Havent seen many barred leghorns but mine have a great contrast between the single barred and double barred birds as you can see from the pic. Should help with knowing if future males are single gene or double gene. Also think it will be an asset with the clear and easy auto sexing.

So fascinating about your leghorns and the projects you are doing. PLEASE, keep us up to date on how they progress. The male in that picture of barred, does he have lavender and silver?

Thanks again for posting.

 

[ChicKat]

Just had the very last egg hatch. It was grabbed off the nest the day after the others started, so it was a day behind. Sure glad that I did that because it's a lavender. This hatch and the next one are from totally different pens - different parents and totally different grand parents than the chicks already pictured. This little chick can dry off overnight in the incubator and tomorrow morning go in the brooder. There are 2 lavenders and 4 browns from this hatch. 6/6 eggs -- The first 100% hatch that I have had. (ever, I think) - the first year I hatched was 2012

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
No, what you are seeing is the normal double barred dilution on an extended black background some males can be lighter than usual.

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
No, what you are seeing is the normal double barred dilution on an extended black background some males can be lighter than usual.

 

[ChicKat]

Newest babies:

set 6, and 6 made it to lockdown. All 6 hatched. Two lavender and 4 splits.


And for comparison, the lavenders that were hatched Jan.31







Gender guessing based on comb - in the last three pictures - maybe boy-girl-girl. The new hatches - my guess is boy-boy.