Lavender patterned Isabel duckwing barred - lavender brown cuckoo barred - project and genetic dis

[The Moonshiner]

Those barred are silver base but no lavender. Theyre some of our barred breeders. One of those hens were used though.
I'll start over just talking about my pure leghorn barred isabelle project. I started the project just using one hen and one rooster so have decided to start the same project again using larger numbers to increase the gene pool. Also because ive been working on a couple other projects in very small numbers and this project will throw chicks I need for other projects as well as the ones I need for the barred isabelle project. Makes more since to combine several projects and use a far larger starting gene pool.
Nicalandia is correct. I know you understand lavender but for others that may not. It takes to lavender genes to show lavender. If a bird carries one lavender gene it does not show or change the bird in any way to show that it carries the lavender gene. You either have to know it was put there or test breed to a lavender to see if it throws any lavender.
One of the reasons i kept some projects seperate was because in my none lavender projects i didnt want the lavender sneaking by unseen then popping up later. I have quite a few ideas with my leghorns and if i need to use a bird that may or may not carry the lavender gene I will just test breed it. I can always use the chicks either way in one project or another.
I'll post in a few about my project....

 

[The Moonshiner]

My barred lavender leghorn project.
Ok heres how it works...

The idea was to use leghorns to create an auto sexing leghorn that follows the basics behind the legbar.
You need a wild type bird with barring. The males need to be double barred and the females single barred. The double barring vs the single barring is what makes them auto sexing. I started planning on adding barring to brown leghorns. They would end up looking like a crele patterned leghorn. Since isabelles are just a brown leghorn with the lavender genes I decide to use them so my crele project turned into a barred isabelle project as well.

You start with an isabelle rooster over barred hens. They will produce black chicks and black barred chicks. These chicks are sex linked. Blacks are female and barred are males. You scrap the females and go to round two with the males.
Now you bring in your isabelle females and breed to the male chicks. The male chicks will look like black barred birds. They will look black because they have the extended black gene from their barred mothers but they will also carry the wild type gene from their father. They will also be barred because they got their mothers barring gene. Being males they will need two copies of the barring but since their father wasnt barred they only got one. We need to add the second later.

The babies produced from round two will be quite the variety. Im looking for my barred lavender pattern. I think the odds are 1 in 32 females will be what i want and 1 in 32 males will be barred isabelle. The males will only have one barring gene so on to round three.

Use those barred isabelle males over the barred isabelle females. You'll get barred isabelle females, non barred isabelle females and barred isabelle males. Half the males will be single barred and half double barred.
Now your there.
Use only the double barred isabelle males over the barred isabelle females and they will now breed true all chicks will be barred isabelles with all males being double barred. They should be auto sexing.
Round two will also produce isabelle females without barring. I can also use them. When bred to a double barred isabelle male all female chicks will be barred isabelles. If bred to single barred isabelle male 1/2 of the female chicks will be barred isabelles. Round two will also produce brown leghorns that carry the isabelle gene. I can use them as splits and when bred to the double barred isabelle male 1/2 the female chicks will be barred isabelles and half will be barred brown split to isabelle. I can use those brown females whether they are barred or not because the double barred males will give all female chicks the barring.
Thats the basics for my barred isabelle leghorn project.
Hope that wasnt to hard to follow.

 

[The Moonshiner]

Some of my birds that are being used

Barred leghorn hens

Isabelle leghorn hens

Isabelle leghorn rooster

 

[Finnie]

Just had the very last egg hatch.  It was grabbed off the nest the day after the others started, so it was a day behind.  Sure glad that I did that because it's a lavender.  This hatch and the next one are from totally different pens - different parents and totally different grand parents than the chicks already pictured.  This little chick can dry off overnight in the incubator and tomorrow morning go in the brooder.  There are 2 lavenders and 4 browns from this hatch.  6/6 eggs -- The first 100% hatch that I have had.  (ever, I think) - the first year I hatched was 2012

Congrats on the 100% hatch! I've been waiting to hear how those pipped eggs progressed.

I have 6 2 week old chicks in my garage. They too were from a 6/6, 100% hatch.

 

[ChicKat]

Quote: Oh Nicalandia -
Do I have a good genetics question for you or what? - This idea was brought up by Double Barrel -- I'm still trying to wrap my head around all the implications - even for Cream genetics -- because I think my own CL flock has a lot of melanin acting on it -- but I didn't know much about Mahogany.

What would happen if you took a dark brown instead of a light brown into the Isabel mix?
in this thread
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/625966/brown-leghorns-pics-info-and-resources - post 6 is this pict of a light brown leghorn


So here's a screen grab from googling of a dark brown leghorn:

You can see the pattern there -- and really a green sheen on a lot of his black parts. The hens are very dark too. Here's a photo from post 28 on that thread (back in 2012)



-- So on Henk's chicken calculator -
Here's light brown - aka Wild type

Here is dark brown (added Mahogany and Melanotic genes)

It changes the look to a rich dark color (even the wing triangle) and it's named 'Extended black patterned red duckwing'
Okay adding the lavender gene to the Extended black patterned Red Duckwing - you get this:

as opposed to the one that doesn't have the dark brown enhancers which is

So some of the more saturated Isabels would have the Mahogany gene - do you think? And if you wanted a saturated color that is one thing you would want in your flock.

On the dark version the dark shoulder and the dark wing triangle really stand out, and and hackles and saddles are more intense. Makes me wonder if Mahogany gene instead of just cream puts some darker saddles on some CL. Which could explain that some of the color controversy was ignoring the presence of Mahogany.

But - the most interesting thing is what Mahogany would do to Isabel. Thanks again Double Barrel.

 

[ChicKat]

Congrats on the 100% hatch! I've been waiting to hear how those pipped eggs progressed.

I have 6 2 week old chicks in my garage. They too were from a 6/6, 100% hatch.

Congratulations on your success too. From hatch to 3-weeks they are cute and adorable....from 3-4 weeks -- they are hooligans and I am so eager for them to be outdoors!

 

[ChicKat]

My barred lavender leghorn project.
Ok heres how it works...

The idea was to use leghorns to create an auto sexing leghorn that follows the basics behind the legbar.
You need a wild type bird with barring. The males need to be double barred and the females single barred. The double barring vs the single barring is what makes them auto sexing. I started planning on adding barring to brown leghorns. They would end up looking like a crele patterned leghorn. Since isabelles are just a brown leghorn with the lavender genes I decide to use them so my crele project turned into a barred isabelle project as well.

You start with an isabelle rooster over barred hens. They will produce black chicks and black barred chicks. These chicks are sex linked. Blacks are female and barred are males. You scrap the females and go to round two with the males.
Now you bring in your isabelle females and breed to the male chicks. The male chicks will look like black barred birds. They will look black because they have the extended black gene from their barred mothers but they will also carry the wild type gene from their father. They will also be barred because they got their mothers barring gene. Being males they will need two copies of the barring but since their father wasnt barred they only got one. We need to add the second later.

The babies produced from round two will be quite the variety. Im looking for my barred lavender pattern. I think the odds are 1 in 32 females will be what i want and 1 in 32 males will be barred isabelle. The males will only have one barring gene so on to round three.

Use those barred isabelle males over the barred isabelle females. You'll get barred isabelle females, non barred isabelle females and barred isabelle males. Half the males will be single barred and half double barred.
Now your there.
Use only the double barred isabelle males over the barred isabelle females and they will now breed true all chicks will be barred isabelles with all males being double barred. They should be auto sexing.
Round two will also produce isabelle females without barring. I can also use them. When bred to a double barred isabelle male all female chicks will be barred isabelles. If bred to single barred isabelle male 1/2 of the female chicks will be barred isabelles. Round two will also produce brown leghorns that carry the isabelle gene. I can use them as splits and when bred to the double barred isabelle male 1/2 the female chicks will be barred isabelles and half will be barred brown split to isabelle. I can use those brown females whether they are barred or not because the double barred males will give all female chicks the barring.
Thats the basics for my barred isabelle leghorn project.
Hope that wasnt to hard to follow.

Beautifully said - and we are doing almost exactly the same thing -- except I'm using Legbars to get the barring gene in mine instead of Leghorns -- it gives mine (for autosexing purposes) the advantage that both are wild type on the E-Locus --

These hatchlings are from split males (single barred) over Isabel females (no barring) -- and I'm trying for the exact same thing -- lavender + barred females and lavender + single barred males (since that is as close as that parenting can get).

Good explanation.

Thanks! -- and of course anything you can post in here will help everyone who reads it -- and chickie picts too.

 

[ChicKat]

Some of my birds that are being used


Barred leghorn hens



Isabelle leghorn hens


Isabelle leghorn rooster

You have some really beautiful birds!

Here's a question you may be able to answer....the barring on the Leghorns would be considered 'cuckoo' barring right? -- because it kind of makes a dip - or a wide V at the shaft. And the space in between the barring - means that they are fast-feathering birds rather than slow feathering. -- I think - so they feather out in a reasonable time and are ready to leave the brooder - which I see as an advantage.
You Isabel cockerel is nice -- I particularly like that his wing triangle looks --lavender-ish. and peach-ish.

 

[The Moonshiner]

You have some really beautiful birds!

Here's a question you may be able to answer....the barring on the Leghorns would be considered 'cuckoo' barring right? -- because it kind of makes a dip - or a wide V at the shaft.  And the space in between the barring - means that they are fast-feathering birds rather than slow feathering.  -- I think - so they feather out in a reasonable time and are ready to leave the brooder - which I see as an advantage. 
You Isabel cockerel is nice -- I particularly like that his wing triangle looks --lavender-ish.  and peach-ish.

Yes they are actually cuckoo.
I like him but bet you can see at least two issues.

 

[The Moonshiner]

 
What would happen if you took a dark brown instead of a light brown into the Isabel mix?

There are breeders doing it. It is said that it improves color or makes a better contrast in the colors.
I didnt see it myself. Pics are of some of ours. All three birds are from the same pen. You can see the dk brown split pullet has the dk brown color but the isabelles look the same as our isabelles from light brown birds.
Sadly I lost that cockerel though.
Interested to see others thoughts on the subject or experience with it.
Myself... I'm using light browns. I didnt see the difference to justify using the darks when I find a lot better built light browns the darks. I love colors, colors, colors but still need to maintain a leghorn that looks like a leghorn over color.