Lavender patterned Isabel duckwing barred - lavender brown cuckoo barred - project and genetic dis

[ChicKat]

I found this male on google images, dont' know if he is lavender or not, but it looks very diluted legbar.

He was said to be a silver legbar

The barring is too diluted,

compared to Silver Legbars from Australia

Agree 100% - It is too diluted to match the silver legbars in Australia - However, it could have silver on the S-Locus AND have two recessive lavenders -- wouldn't you say Mr. Nicalandia and Moonshiner's poultry. I'm thinking you have identified it to a T.

Reason for silver -- almost no red on the shoulder, and reason for lavender -- if it were a silver Legbar as we understand the genetic make up and as the Australian silver Legbars show -- there would be black barring.

Know what? I think this is going to be very similar to the way my guys will look.
THANKS for the posting and the observations!

Now, if it is both silver and lavender(isabel) -- Makes me wonder what a gold and lavender(isabel) will produce.

ETA - Since I don't see a crest that pen wouldn't make me think Cream Legbars, and the comb looks like it isn't wonky - another indication of probably no crest. The upright stance and the high tail plus slanted back do say 'legbar' to my mind. I'm guessing that is a lavender barred bird - and the barring DOES show up - which I was concerned about. The sleuthing is much appreciated.

 

[The Moonshiner]

Like I said he was said to be a silver legbar. Not that im saying he is. Theres a pic of him on this forum somewhere. I do remember he was said to be from the UK so probably some different breeding going on there then here or in australia so hard to say what is in his line or his background.
I agree he does look diluted but from experience i know when some barred birds get a lot more of the white then the black it can play tricks on the eyes and almost look diluted. Cant recall any of mine looking that diluted but ive had several that look more grey or blue then black.
I'll see if I have any pics in a few.
Again im not saying what he is or isnt just that I know enough to not try and say for sure what he is exactly.

 

[The Moonshiner]

Both cockerels are double barred and are full siblings

 

[ChicKat]

Like I said he was said to be a silver legbar. Not that im saying he is. Theres a pic of him on this forum somewhere. I do remember he was said to be from the UK so probably some different breeding going on there then here or in australia so hard to say what is in his line or his background.
I agree he does look diluted but from experience i know when some barred birds get a lot more of the white then the black it can play tricks on the eyes and almost look diluted. Cant recall any of mine looking that diluted but ive had several that look more grey or blue then black.
I'll see if I have any pics in a few.
Again im not saying what he is or isnt just that I know enough to not try and say for sure what he is exactly.

Both cockerels are double barred and are full siblings

Thanks - just when one thinks that they have the answers (all the answers) it seems something new will pop in.
I did find that silver legbar posted here -- back in 2012 - and we all thought it was a "wow" then:
post 1308 of this thread:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/459044/the-legbar-thread/1300

ETA - that UK bird could have other diluters or genes causing the color - there is a 'smokey gene' and a 'platinum gene' - as well as lavender that dilutes the blacks - if I'm understanding some of the postings I've seen lately.

 

[hhong3138]

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Congrats!!  What a pretty bunch of chicks!  YAY!   Exciting hatch - they are sure cute. 

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Thanks! They are adorable! One is really big kind of like my English Orpington chicks. Last count 25 hatched, some more pipped. They should all be hatched by the morning. Will have a final count then. So exciting!

 

[ChicKat]

Thanks! They are adorable! One is really big kind of like my English Orpington chicks. Last count 25 hatched, some more pipped. They should all be hatched by the morning. Will have a final count then. So exciting!

YOU are going to have a hand full of chickens!

For the Easter Hatch-along - I set 49 eggs.... If I get the same rate as last time - 60-65% hatch, then, with these parents there should be 15 or so that are double lavender, and then from those - 7-8 that are barred - which would possibly be 3 male and 3 female -- ( maybe I can put in an order for 1 male and 6 females that are lavender and barred - and then I need them to be crestless...) Hopefully my hatch will be as successful as yours. This time I'm doing the humidity by egg weight and not by anything else.....

What a great time of year!

 

[hhong3138]

YOU are going to have a hand full of chickens!  

For the Easter Hatch-along - I set 49 eggs.... If I get the same rate as last time - 60-65% hatch, then, with these parents there should be 15 or so that are double lavender, and then from those - 7-8 that are barred - which would possibly be 3 male and 3 female -- ( maybe I can put in an order for 1 male and 6 females that are lavender and barred - and then I need them to be crestless...) Hopefully my hatch will be as successful as yours.  This time I'm doing the humidity by egg weight and not by anything else.....

What a great time of year! 

Yes!, more chicks than I needed . I am looking for home for the ones I am not going to keep. One person will come to get a few this afternoon.

Ok, 36 total hatched, 3 still alive and pipped, 5 eggs show no sign of aliveness. So pretty good hatching rate (45 eggs).

I hope you will have a better hatch rate this time and get enough Isabel barred for your project

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
I believe that is how a proper Triple diluted rooster should look like, and that is how some of your males will end up looking, if double barred cream legbar roosters look almost silver looking, this dilution effect will be further enhanced by Lavender.. If you are aiming for Lavender Cream Legbars then they will be completely silver, but you may chose not to breed for the cream dilution gene and leave some straw color on the males and females for a beautiful contrast.

 

[nicalandia]

double post.

 

[ChicKat]

Quote: Absolutely right, I don't want to loose those contrasting colors in the males hackle and saddle feathers. Even more than "Poster Boy's" color - more straw/gold than that!

The reason I call him Poster Boy is because he is in that write up for Isabel(la) - His wing triangle is too close for me -- to the Silver Leghorn below


This is what I'm thinking the current Cream Legbar people wish to achieve with their birds-- which interestingly - in one exchange we had with Grant Brereton - he siad if you want it to look Silver then why bother with any cream. - makes perfect sense to me. Silver Crele is very pretty -- but to my though it doesn't make sense that Punnett would have said the color Cream was something never previously seen in UK in the 1930's when he identified it.

Definitely - I DO want to eliminate all the cream genes in the Lavender Patterned Isabel Duckwing - B2 (LPID-B2) No doubt in my mind.

Not a flattering picture of my guy -- but compare the wing triangle and see the difference in color.

The is one of the days that he jumped over the fence in the 'courtyard' and ran around outside the pens fence-fighting every other rooster he could find. He used to just jump to the top, crow a bit and then jump back in. Now he is confined to a pen with a roof.

You can see it here also -- It definitely isn't white.

Remember that origami way that chickens fold thier wings, the triangle that shows is the secondary feathers -- Here is a B&W image from a paper Punnett wrote:

The top feather is from a gold bird - so the upper most part of that feather would be a shade of gold (brown, red) -- The lower photo shows - non-gold bird is from a 'cream with brown leghorn type plumage." according to Punnett.

If the plate was in color -- (and it could be that is available for $39.95 from Springer which seems to have archived the genetics journals in India, but I digress...perhaps all the plates there are in B&W also. Here is that link:https://link.springer.com/journal/12041/48/3/page/1

Here is a free link to Punnett's article:
http://www-old.ias.ac.in/jarch/jgenet/48/327.pdf

Back in 1947 - the chickens he has there (stuffed with cotton, I suspect after they were skinned....) -- look less robust than today's birds, don't they? Just shows what 70- years of chicken raising can do for a breed.

Here is a wing diagram for reference...and the secondaries ae closer to the body -- (just seems that the primaries would be the outtermost feathers, and show when wing is folded.

Which brings me back to the appearance of the secondary feathers:
Where the top feather is brown - along the top edge, lavender should dilute to -- straw or light salmon/pink, and where it is black/dark brown along the bottom edge, lavender should dilute to lavender -- I'll try to get a single feather picture sometime to put in here....

ETA - Poster Boy's saturation of tail and wing bar are something I would like to see. In Class room in the Coop - I think it was Henk that remarked that it didn't look exactly lavender. Could Smokey or Platinum produce that look? Marvin, any viewpoint on Platinum or Smokey compared to lavender?