Lethal temperature of Japanese quail eggs?

[superdood56]

Hi all,

I️ am new to avian incubation and have a few questions. I️ should clarify by saying I️ am incubating Japanese quail eggs for a master’s thesis. The goal is to manipulate a couple variables and determine the lethal thermal tolerance of these little guys and not get them to hatch. I️ have received my first couple orders of eggs and they have been incubating at 37.5C and 50% RH. On day 12 of incubation, I️ transferred the first group of eggs (n=41) to an incubator set at 45C and 50% RH for one hour. I️ checked their heart rates on a Buddy heart rate monitor and every egg had a heart beat. The next day (day 13 of incubation) I️ put them in the incubator set at 47C and 50% RH for one hour and they still had heart beats! I️ spoke with someone who said the embryos may still have a heart beat in the egg but have poor development as a result of the heat. However, for this experiment, we are not concerned with poor development. We are trying to determine the maximum critical temperature that causes death of the embryo in the eggshell. Are there other ways to check for life besides the heart rate monitor? Is the Buddy heart rate monitor accurate? Candling has been inconsistent as some eggs appear dead based on pictures posted online, but they were confirmed to have a heart beat. Any help would be appreciated!

Thank you.

 

[Kiki]

I have no advice but I'd love to follow along.

 

[mdees88]

Let me see if I'm getting this right... your goal is to kill quail inside the egg. You purposefully ran your incubator 13.5 degrees F above the recommended incubation temp but unfortunately their tiny little hearts kept beating.... so you upped the temp 3 more degrees and they still wouldn't die for you?



What's your masters in....
Enhanced Interrogation Techniques???

I'm in.......

 

[4 ever Orpington]

Hi all,

I️ am new to avian incubation and have a few questions. I️ should clarify by saying I️ am incubating Japanese quail eggs for a master’s thesis. The goal is to manipulate a couple variables and determine the lethal thermal tolerance of these little guys and not get them to hatch. I️ have received my first couple orders of eggs and they have been incubating at 37.5C and 50% RH. On day 12 of incubation, I️ transferred the first group of eggs (n=41) to an incubator set at 45C and 50% RH for one hour. I️ checked their heart rates on a Buddy heart rate monitor and every egg had a heart beat. The next day (day 13 of incubation) I️ put them in the incubator set at 47C and 50% RH for one hour and they still had heart beats! I️ spoke with someone who said the embryos may still have a heart beat in the egg but have poor development as a result of the heat. However, for this experiment, we are not concerned with poor development. We are trying to determine the maximum critical temperature that causes death of the embryo in the eggshell. Are there other ways to check for life besides the heart rate monitor? Is the Buddy heart rate monitor accurate? Candling has been inconsistent as some eggs appear dead based on pictures posted online, but they were confirmed to have a heart beat. Any help would be appreciated!

Thank you.

 

[Kiki]

I LOVE experiments!

 

[superdood56]

I️ will certainly keep you all in the loop! I️ am planning on measuring metabolic rate tomorrow through Sunday then trying the lethal temp again on Sunday. I️’ll place them in the incubator at 48C and 50% RH for two hours and see what happens! Hopefully we get some results
To mdees88 it’s a master’s in biomedical sciences. Hopefully this leads to medical school!

 

[Kiki]

I️ will certainly keep you all in the loop! I️ am planning on measuring metabolic rate tomorrow through Sunday then trying the lethal temp again on Sunday. I️’ll place them in the incubator at 48C and 50% RH for two hours and see what happens! Hopefully we get some results
To mdees88 it’s a master’s in biomedical sciences. Hopefully this leads to medical school!

 

[gpop1]

You can look at this from a simpler idea

it takes x amount of heart beats from the spark of life to hatch

if you lower the temp the heart rate will slow down so they will hatch later

with chicken eggs (larger mass slower reaction to heat) you can put them in the freezer for a few hours when there in the early to mid stage of incubation and practically get the heart to stop (undetectable) then warm them back up with no major loss.

There is a limit on lower temperature due to the lack of available nutrition inside the egg that should be used to grow the chick rather than being used to survive.

You can run the incubator hotter than recommended and the heart rate will increase thus a earlier hatch but there comes a point where the heart will go so fast that it kills the embryo. The max temp is considered to be 105 to 106 F internal. Due to the quail egg being so small thats probably less than 30 minutes at 106 or about a hour or two for a chicken egg.

I would be careful with the humidity and set the % based on the air pocket as buttons can easily drown when piping if the air pocket is to small. Buttons also pip and zip so a lower humidly doesn't seem to affect them during hatch as bad as it does the lazy chickens that pip then take a 12 hour rest before zipping.

Most of this info was taken from different college reports and some personal experience so its probably half truth at best. ( i was trying to research how to monitor a heart beat in real time inside a incubator with out buying a expensive sensor)

I would love to play with the heart rate monitor especially monitoring the speed verse the temp. I would also like to know what happens at higher temp (de-fib?)

The real skill is going to be keeping buttons alive if they hatch as they seem to be born suicidal.

 

[Kiki]

You can look at this from a simpler idea

it takes x amount of heart beats from the spark of life to hatch

Interesting!

Is this fact?

I have not heard this before and am wondering if this was learned from the college reports or personal experience?

 

[gpop1]

Interesting!

Is this fact?

I have not heard this before and am wondering if this was learned from the college reports or personal experience?

A bit of both. College report confirms heartbeat speed verses temperature. Every one on this site will confirm temperature verses hatchdate.

No one has so far data recorded the heartbeat from start to hatch that I have found a report written about but most reports summarize that there probably is a link between them.

My intrest was in the equipment required to monitor the heart rate as a way of controlling incubator temp rather than the biological side of things.