Lets talk about layer feed...

[Melky]

Most people with show type birds feed higher protein year long to all ages. I don't feed layer, period. I have a variety of ages and roosters mixed in, don't want the extra calcium. The layers get oyster shell and grit free choice and they don't get junk food, only some meaty bone scraps and a small amount of vegetable waste. I do want to find a way to cut the protein some for the laying pen, but I like my growouts to at least start on the higher protein.

I start at 20 % medicated starter grower feed up to 8 weeks ( if flock mixed of all ages can use 20% flockraiser by Purina) then wean to 18 % protein starter grower feed or stay on flockraiser. Then at 18 weeks wean to 16% layer feed. You can use flockraiser throughout age groups but if all birds get to be 18 weeks or over then would switch to 16% layer feed if do not like it because fear it for rooster can use a grower feed. This allows the protein to come down. Show birds are not typically on a meat bird feed. They are on a show bird feed which is different formulation. You will find these will be more formulated for your chickens. Meatbird feed is really only for broiler chickens because you need to pack more weight on sooner than laying hens. They live a shorter life cycle because they get culled when young and tender and proper weight. Picking up too much weight too soon can hurt a laying hen as you have found or a rooster resulting in Fatty Liver Disease. Chickens max protein should be 20% and weaned slowly as gets older. As laying hens get older you obviously keep longer in the flock and once to breed weight you will no longer need protein made for growing chickens just maintenance at this point. Hope this makes sense. You can literally feed chickens to death and that sounds like what you have been doing. If you are showing chickens choose a show feed at appropriate age. Hope this does not offend just meant to explain so you stop seeing Fatty Liver Disease.

 

[Mosey2003]

I start at 20 % medicated starter grower feed up to 8 weeks ( if flock mixed of all ages can use 20% flockraiser by Purina) then wean to 18 % protein starter grower feed or stay on flockraiser. Then at 18 weeks wean to 16% layer feed. You can use flockraiser throughout age groups but if all birds get to be 18 weeks or over then would switch to 16% layer feed if do not like it because fear it for rooster can use a grower feed. This allows the protein to come down. Show birds are not typically on a meat bird feed. They are on a show bird feed which is different formulation. You will find these will be more formulated for your chickens. Meatbird feed is really only for broiler chickens because you need to pack more weight on sooner than laying hens. They live a shorter life cycle because they get culled when young and tender and proper weight. Picking up too much weight too soon can hurt a laying hen as you have found or a rooster resulting in Fatty Liver Disease. Chickens max protein should be 20% and weaned slowly as gets older. As laying hens get older you obviously keep longer in the flock and once to breed weight you will no longer need protein made for growing chickens just maintenance at this point. Hope this makes sense. You can literally feed chickens to death and that sounds like what you have been doing. If you are showing chickens choose a show feed at appropriate age. Hope this does not offend just meant to explain so you stop seeing Fatty Liver Disease.

Yes, I do understand all of that. Part of the problem in my area is lack of availability of different types and brands of feeds. Nobody I've found in a 40 mile radius of me carries anything like a breeder feed, or a grower feed. It's meatbird, starter-grower, layer, and all flock basically. And I really want my birds getting some portion of their protein as animal protein, and the only available one with that is the meat bird. Thus wanting to cut it down a bit but still use it. I've seen so many different feeding strategies from various breeders and show bird folks, some even use a gamebird or turkey starter.

To be fair, I haven't actually had any birds die of their own causes yet, and I've been feeding this way for a few years. I think it will be okay if I can find the right balance to tweak it down for the various pens. I'm going to butcher my 2yo rooster this weekend, so will be interested to see what his liver looks like in comparison to the hens I did over the summer.

 

[GreenMountainEric]

@Mosey2003 - Maybe just ask your feed store if they have a lower protein grower. Poultry grower feeds in the range of 17-19% protein are very common.

Edit- just saw your reply about limited availability of alternatives.

Lots of things can cause fatty liver. Excess energy, or protein in the diet is one cause. Feeding habits are another. In commercial flocks, it is usually caused by excess energy. In backyard flocks it is more commonly caused by one of two things.

1- Withholding or restricting feed. Leaving hens without feed for 2 or more hours will cause them to binge eat when they do get food. The binge eating causes them to store the excess energy.

2- Housing temperature fluctuations. If their coop temperature fluctuates a lot, they will get in to a habit of overeating to stay warm. The excess energy consumed will get stored on the warmer days.

Obviously, it isn’t super easy to keep your housing at a steady temperature in many parts of the US.

Fatty liver happens a lot with older backyard birds. Genetics has a lot to do with that. A large percentage of available breeds have been designed to live in 70 degree comfort year around, and have diets constantly modified to suit their needs.

We treat for fatty liver in commercial flocks. Choline chloride is added to the feed to correct fatty liver issues (I have heard the same practice is used in humans). The hard part for someone with a backyard flock, would be the dosing on the choline chloride. It is a very tiny amount.

 

[Melky]

Before adding choline chloride I would switch the feed. @Mosey2003 mentioned they have more appropriate feeding options available such as starter grower, flockraiser, and layer and these are better options and formulations for her chickens. Sorry if got off topic for original person who posted thread but felt a learning opportunity here.

 

[Mosey2003]

I'll do some more running around to see if anyone has started carrying anything different since the last time I checked. But I really really prefer to have animal protein included and not soy only.

 

[Melky]

I'll do some more running around to see if anyone has started carrying anything different since the last time I checked. But I really really prefer to have animal protein included and not soy only.

Why animal protein as this is not natural to a chickens diet?

 

[Mosey2003]

Why animal protein as this is not natural to a chickens diet?

Why would animal protein not be natural to a chicken's diet? They're omnivores.

 

[Melky]

Why would animal protein not be natural to a chicken's diet? They're omnivores.

Yes but they eat things like worms, insects, etc in environment for that. This may be more natural. Can also provide dried mealworms or grow for protein snack. Scrambled egg,tuna, sprouted lentils or grains would also be ok to feed for those sources in moderation to keep treats 10% or below so as not to dilute nutrition. Many meatbird formulations advertise a vegetarian diet and do not report an animal protein in them. Not sure what you use. Curious?

 

[Mosey2003]

Yes but they eat things like worms, insects, etc in environment for that. This may be more natural. Can also provide dried mealworms or grow for protein snack. Scrambled egg,tuna, sprouted lentils or grains would also be ok to feed for those sources in moderation to keep treats 10% or below so as not to dilute nutrition. Many meatbird formulations advertise a vegetarian diet and do not report an animal protein in them. Not sure what you use. Curious?

My birds don't get to free range. What difference does it make if I feed them a feed containing animal products or I go out and buy separate animal products to feed them? I'm not looking to offer a five star buffet to them, I just want their nutritional needs covered in a thorough and efficient manner. My meatbird does not offer a vegetarian diet. It's a brand called Country Roads, I'd have to get you a tag to share ingredients.

 

[aart]

Mine just started haven’t heard that. On no soy no corn layer mash doing fine.

Right...give it year or so, then you can speak from actual experience.