Lets talk about layer feed...

[Cindy in PA]

@Cindy in PA
Why not just supplement with a product like Farmers Helper Ultrakibble? It is a high protien supplement from fishmeal I believe protien content was around 27%.
Also readily available off the shelf.

I have tried that in the past & it didn't seem to do much. also don't like that it was mostly corn gluten meal after they made it soy free. There are all sorts of things that can be used to supplement protein. I would prefer to feed one feed with everything balanced in it & around 18% protein. Feeding a mix of pelleted feeds that brings the protein to 18% is preferred when I can't find an 18% protein layer. Just would be easier & closer to a regular 18% layer feed. The problem has always been finding an organic pelleted feed with more protein & if I decide to raise the protein in my layer, that is what I can finally do.

 

[Mosey2003]

Giggles.

I don't like putting out bones, scared the dog might get a hold of one and/or that it might attract rats or other pests, plus I usually pick them pretty clean myself-nothing left for chickens.

I don't mind it since we just have the house dog, and he can't get into the run. But I do need to be better about picking them up the next day, I went out in my Crocs a few months ago and actually had a bone rise up out of the mud (it was a wet day) and stab my foot through my shoe!!! I was really happy I had just updated my tetanus vaccine last year, but it still HURT!

I had so many projects I wanted to complete before winter and my mom going into the hospital in the beginning of August really scuppered nearly everything but basic maintenance.

 

[NNYchick]

Really simple actually. The FDA and individual state regulations don’t require us to do so. Because of that, we take the easy way out, and don’t bother giving more information than we are required to provide.

Not exactly a flattering answer for the feed industry in general. But, it is what it is.

This also provides an opening for some feed companies to use sub standard/not perfectly balanced ingredients to produce a feed that looks great on the guaranteed analysis, but not so great if you saw the whole picture.

This could more likely be the reason you see many folks having better results on higher protein levels in some cases. Let’s say you have 2 different layer feeds that are both 17% crude protein, and your layer’s current crude protein needs are 17%. You could easily be meeting your chickens actual needs a lot better with one of those feeds than the other.....

In reality, a crude protein figure means absolutely nothing. The real information that you need, is in the levels, and breakdown, of each individual amino acid. You also need to know if the characteristics of the mix, and ingredients used, provide poor, adequate, or exceptional uptake of those nutrients.

I can tell you, with the proper formulation/ingredients/probiotics/etc., 99% of laying hens only need 13.5-17.5% protein in their total diet, depending on their age/weight/Production stage. However, a 20% crude protein diet could be easily formulated, and not appropriately meet their needs......

A good example of this, is the ingredient Field Peas. They are high in crude protein, they are cost effective, they are easy to get, and their amino acid profile works pretty nicely for bovines and swine. However, they really don’t work well with poultry. We have done several large flock studies with field peas, and I was stunned at how poorly they performed.

I don’t have good scientific data to back that up, but we did trial diets with field peas on several 20k bird flocks, at several different times, and the difference was ENORMOUS. Every category from production, to general health, case weights, and overall mortality rates was much better on balanced diets without peas. Some others results may vary......

Another factor is- what else is being fed. If you are feeding a substantial amount of scratch, greens, certain types of scraps, etc., you are probably lowering the protein level in the total diet, and a higher protein layer feed would be preferred. (obviously some types of scraps will raise the total dietary protein).

You also have to keep in mind that excess protein can be an issue as well. Once an average hen gets above 4.75-5lbs, they become a lot more likely to develop fatty liver, or have heart and leg problems. Fatty liver is very common.

I know this isn’t the answer you all would want to hear...... the truth is, a lot can be hidden in the minimum amount of tag/guarantee information that is required. Feed companies aren’t even required to list all of the grain ingredients individually. Luckily, many of them have started to provide that information. Still, there is a huge variance in formulations, even though the guarantee info could read the same. Even if you have two bags of feed from the same manufacturer, they could be very different products, depending on where you purchased them. Products at a big box store are not necessarily the same thing that you can get at your local feed store. Something to keep in mind....

Well I’ve re-read this thread multiple times and I’m more confused than ever. After researching many brands and seeing basically the same guaranteed analysis and ingredients list I thought most feeds were the same just differing protein and calcium levels. So I have been choosing a feed that pellets, is < 2 in calcium and aiming for 18-20% protein, then choosing whatever had the closest manufactured date for freshness.
Yesterday I purchased poulin grains Gamebird 20% and was going to mix egg plus for my serama hens as I’m worried the OS is to big for them. But my egg plus wasn’t in the delivery order yesterday. Now I see gamebird feed is not recommended for poultry. So back to the drawing board.
BTW does anyone know where the manufactured date is for poulin grain, it’s not on the tag or the bag seal?

 

[Cindy in PA]

For Poulin the date is the 4 digit # on the bottom tape of the bag. The first number is the year, 8 for 2018 & the next 3 numbers are the day of the year, like 001 being January 1st & 365 being Dec. 31st. Last bag I bought was 8310 so the manufacture date was November 6, 2018.

 

[aart]

For Poulin the date is the 4 digit # on the bottom tape of the bag. The first number is the year, 8 for 2018 & the next 3 numbers are the day of the year, like 001 being January 1st & 365 being Dec. 31st. Last bag I bought was 8310 so the manufacture date was November 6, 2018.

Julian calendar

 

[NNYchick]

Thank you. So mine was manufactured November 5,2018. A little older than I would have pick, I like it to be within 3 weeks of purchase day but it will work.

 

[Kris5902]

I’ve been wondering what to feed my mixed flock for breeding/layers as I want to give my roosters less calcium than layer feed here’s what I have available... I’m feeding the grower crumbles right now, but they don’t make that in pellets and I want to cut down on wastage. I’m worried about the higher protein and fat levels in the Broiler Pellets though. What’s your opinions on this?

 

[Shadrach]

Off topic but...Shad can you tell me the brand names of some of the feeds available in your area? Even better if you could link me to a couple of their websites. I don't think I have any feeds on my sheet from Spain yet.

@Texas Kiki
https://www.la-grana.com/pienso-para-gallinas-ponedoras-eco-25kg
https://www.agroveco.com/products/piensos-gallinas/
https://www.agroterra.com/p/pienso-gallina-puesta-ecolgico-125-kg-3070717/3070717
https://www.planetahuerto.es/venta-...304nATskYAZRwd71wiVM_8h5OoEwUbRhoCxYQQAvD_BwE
http://www.coopsalelles.com/Salelles/index.php/pinsos-ecologics
This next link, if you have the patience and the Spanish, will lead you to various other chicken feed suppliers. Strangely, I can't find the particular feed I used to use here which came from Picart in the next village. I'll see if I can take a picture of the label next time I go over there.
http://poultry.proultry.com/companies/piensos-picart
I will also add a picture of the label on the feed I'm using now. The company that supplies it does have a web site but there is no product information on it.

 

[Kiki]

@Texas Kiki
https://www.la-grana.com/pienso-para-gallinas-ponedoras-eco-25kg
https://www.agroveco.com/products/piensos-gallinas/
https://www.agroterra.com/p/pienso-gallina-puesta-ecolgico-125-kg-3070717/3070717
https://www.planetahuerto.es/venta-...304nATskYAZRwd71wiVM_8h5OoEwUbRhoCxYQQAvD_BwE
http://www.coopsalelles.com/Salelles/index.php/pinsos-ecologics
This next link, if you have the patience and the Spanish, will lead you to various other chicken feed suppliers. Strangely, I can't find the particular feed I used to use here which came from Picart in the next village. I'll see if I can take a picture of the label next time I go over there.
http://poultry.proultry.com/companies/piensos-picart
I will also add a picture of the label on the feed I'm using now. The company that supplies it does have a web site but there is no product information on it.

I am looking at everything now.
THANK YOU!

 

[Shadrach]

@Texas Kiki
This is what I'm feeding now as a mash.
It comes from a cooperative in a town an hours drive away. They do a few different feeds and next time I'm there I'll try to remember to take a camera.