Let's talk about Mareks... Looking for people who deal with in their flock

[Kiki]

Thank you

You are welcome.
I highly recommend sending at least one bird.
It is easier to plan when you know for sure what you are dealing with.

 

[AudieWarren]

Getting the testing performed will give you the best answers.

There should be no apology for culling birds that are not productive, your goal is egg production. Culling is also used to help control disease.

Marek's is a complicated disease and symptoms can be very confusing, so getting testing and confirmation is a good idea.

You mention scabby skin? Is it like lesions or Ulcers? Skin lesions/form in Marek's would be "Cutaneous Form". That would be typical of white bumps on the skin with crusty brown scabs and enlarged inflamed looking feather follicles
"Visceral Form" is tumors on internal organs - heart, live, ovaries, lungs and sometimes brain (this would go hand in hand with the neurological symptoms sometimes seen in Marek's)

Warning/ the following link does show sick birds and necropsy photos:
See the Cornell link for photos of Marek's in chickens-be sure to look at the "gross lesions" as well as the clinical signs tab.
http://partnersah.vet.cornell.edu/avian-atlas/search/disease/502#/disease/Marek's_Disease

One of the very best articles on Marek's.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/the-great-big-giant-mareks-disease-faq.66077/

I do not have first hand experience with Marek's. Hopefully @rebrascora @Nambroth and @orrpeople will chime in.

Thank you thank you thank you!! The pictures of the "scabby" skin is very reflective of what I have seen. After today's cull, I plan to do an necropsy to see any internal lesions. I might have had a pullet have paralysis.... I thought she was hurt from an over zealous rooster.... Who earned his way to camp kitchen... Anyway your reply has been very helpful.

 

[AudieWarren]

Scabby and skinny doesn't sound like Mareks. Are you sure they don't have some sort of external parasites, lice or mites?

they are mite /lice free

Hopefully you can get this all sorted out! You’ve got some great people helping you out here!
Currently my bird is getting a necropsy to check for Mareks but we don’t get the results until tomorrow, it’s hard to be patient sometimes, haha!

It sure is. I did an at home necropsy and took pictures of one I culled about 7:30 this morning. I'm going to compare pictures tonight when things slow down.

 

[microchick]

I have Marek's in my flock and have lost 2/3s of my Buff O-Welsummer birds. I had nearly 40 at one point and I am now down to 13, 11 hens and 2 roosers. I also have a flock of about 35 bantam and bantam crosses.

I've lost birds to Ocular Marek's, Visceral Marek's and Neurological Marek's. I would be interested in seeing a picture of one of your bird's funky eyes. My husband is a retired eye doctor and I made my diagnosis by having him use a hand held microscope on one of my affected bird's eyes. He was able to confirm a herpes infection and damage for me. The true Marek's eyes on a chicken is very distinctive.

I have to disagree about the skinny part not sounding like Marek's. MD birds are notorious for being unthrifty and hard to keep weight on them. At least my birds have been and the birds as they reach the final stages of the disease/tumors for example, are all walking skeletons when I put them down.

Hope you don't have this horrible disease in your flock. I lost 5 birds all showing signs of Marek's this past summer, all within a months time. I don't cull until they decline sharply for example I had a rooster who looked thin but when he started having problems eating and I discovered three tumors in his throat, I put him down immediately. I won't let them suffer nor will I let them starve to death so yes, I can sympathize with your thoughts on culling

 

[AudieWarren]

Hey yall!! So today I had a pullet die. She wasn't laying yet, but I know it would have been soon. I went to the fill feeders and waterers at 7am. Everything was fine. I went out there around lunch and she was layed out unable to walk. I picked her up without a fuss(very unusual bc they don't like being handled.) and removed her from the flock. I had to make her drink. I went to check on her periodically throughout the day. When my husband came home around 4:30pm she was dead. This was sudden. I'm taking her in the morning to get a necropsy. Just wanted to touch base and let yall know what is going on.

 

[microchick]

Hey yall!! So today I had a pullet die. She wasn't laying yet, but I know it would have been soon. I went to the fill feeders and waterers at 7am. Everything was fine. I went out there around lunch and she was layed out unable to walk. I picked her up without a fuss(very unusual bc they don't like being handled.) and removed her from the flock. I had to make her drink. I went to check on her periodically throughout the day. When my husband came home around 4:30pm she was dead. This was sudden. I'm taking her in the morning to get a necropsy. Just wanted to touch base and let yall know what is going on.

'Deepest condolences. I know how painful it is and how frustrating. Glad that you are having a necropsy done and like others I look forward to hearing the results.

As for the disinfectant. Please forgive me for playing devil's advocate here but I really wonder about the lasting efficiency of disinfectants given the prevelance of Marek's in the general population of birds and in the wild.

True, keeping coops clean is only logical in good poultry stewardship but in the longrun what is to keep enviromental spread and reinfection of the area you just sanitized with either Virkron or Oxine? Whether it's via insects, dander or wild birds, what is to keep the reinfection other than keeping your birds in an airtight coop and indoor run where you have to cover yourself in an inviromental suit, helmet gloves and booties and change those every time you enter the coop? You would need a postitive pressure airlock and birds that are tested and 100% Marek's free. Then all the spray in the world isn't going to keep that one infected fly from getting into your sanitized coop and run and reinfecting your whole flock.

Yeah, Pretty grim and yes, cynical on my part but I've lost a LOT of birds to this disease, including one two weeks ago that I had to put down when I discovered her crop was swollen to the size of a grape furit, hard and she was skin and bones. More than likely a Marek's tumor.

IMHO, veterinary science/medicine needs to get it's fingers out of it's collecive ears and develop a vaccine that is not open ended and will once and for all stop this disease in it's tracks. It has to be made available in quanities that is practical for back yard flock keepers and unlike the current vaccine, not 'almost' work.

They have done it with the human papilloma virus. It's only a matter of time before they do it with other forms of the herpes virus.

Until then...we who have Marek's in our flocks will keep on practicing good stewardship and caring for our flocks to the best of our abilities and in the mean time, dealing with the occasional dead bird.

 

[AudieWarren]

Thank you all for your comments and condolences. Yes it is very frustrating. I drove almost 2 hrs one way to deliver my pullet. It was faster than mailing her. I wanted my results yesterday. Luckily in Georgia it is free of charge. As soon as I know something, I'll let yall know.

 

[orrpeople]

The first bird at my place to exhibit Marek’s symptoms was a vaccinated Legbar. Since then all but one bird with Legbar genes have died, a good percentage from Marek’s. Other breeds have been much more resistant here. It makes sense that birds develop resistance to local prevalent viruses, so maybe try other breeds, or birds from breeders in your area that have bred for resistance rather than vaccinating?
I am in Idaho, and brought in a specific breed from sources in Washington and Oklahoma, and they have been fine, but one of those breeders said they tried some birds from Ohio and they all got Marek’s while his own were ok, so maybe something about regional strains of virus or specific lines of susceptible birds.
I found this and felt it explained it well...

http://creamlegbarclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Importing.pdf

Legbars were our susceptible breed as well.

 

[Kiki]

Oh totally. I am going to let the sisters live in quarantine until I'm ready to ship them off. I want them fresh as possible...

Let us know the results once you do get them.
Good luck!

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

Marek's has been a much smaller "fish in our pond" than I was warned it would be. After all of the dire predictions and warnings after our first outbreak, we have not seen it. Don't get me wrong - I know it lies dormant, sometimes for years. I also still run a pretty tight ship as far as nutrition, cleanliness/antimicrobial use, and stress reduction. But, we had a very stressful summer (major wildfire, evacuations, and more) and they sailed through very well. I really do believe Marek's to be part of every poultry environment, just not in outbreak form.