Viable treatment for Marek's Disease.

[Mason Farm and Ranch]

Have you picked your birds to test? I think I am too late to answer. I might have to agree that they may test all positive due to shedding.

However, if we do go with the 80% rate, then I will pick 3 birds at random to test. With 3 birds, if treatment is ineffective, there is

• 0.2*0.2*0.2 = 0.008 ≈ 1% chance that ALL THREE tests are negative.

So if all three tests are negative, then you've been very successful.
(The chance for exactly one positive test is about 10%, still pretty rare. So even if it came back with one positive test, you are still doing good.)

No. If I were testing for ALV, yes. But my focus is Marek's. Baicalin doesn't kill Marek's, it sends the virus to it's dormant state. An unvaccinated bird infected with Marek's, even in it's dormant state, should test positive.

Because of this trial, I need the birds to test positive, but remain asymptomatic.

If they don't test positive, I'll have another hypothesis on my hands indicating Baicalin stops shedding and no way to test it.

 

[Mason Farm and Ranch]

Have you picked your birds to test? I think I am too late to answer. I might have to agree that they may test all positive due to shedding.

However, if we do go with the 80% rate, then I will pick 3 birds at random to test. With 3 birds, if treatment is ineffective, there is

• 0.2*0.2*0.2 = 0.008 ≈ 1% chance that ALL THREE tests are negative.

So if all three tests are negative, then you've been very successful.
(The chance for exactly one positive test is about 10%, still pretty rare. So even if it came back with one positive test, you are still doing good.)

Well crap. You're right. The clinical research does indicate Baicalin as a prophylactic inhibits the MRNa and prohibiting infection.

I have zero symptomatic birds. Even the ones picking up the respiratory illness going around are recovering quickly with minimal treatment.

I didn't think THAT through at all.

 

[Mason Farm and Ranch]

I recently consulted with an Avian Specialist familiar with Marek's and he confirmed that if my pullets have been on Chinese Skullcap since day 1, they can't contract the virus because it has to replicate to infect and it can't.

So...I only have one generation of resistance. Not sure how to proceed with breeding for resistance at this point.

On the brighter side, I created a FB page where myself and a number of other BYC flocks are communicating and collaborating the use of Chinese Skullcap to control Marek's AND ALV. We're having marked success.

Visible and notable improvement is in the 7-10 day range depending on the state of the birds at the start of treatment.

 

[Mason Farm and Ranch]

Okay, so I've been trying to follow this thread and I've been reading up on using Chinese skullcap, but the dosages vary greatly in studies, which isn't as much of a problem for me as the fact that if I buy a powder, how do I know how many mg to use?

I mean, are they talking about mg by weight of the powdered root? Or mg of the constituent baicalin which then is what I mean by - huh? LOL - then how much powder to feed them?

Does that make sense?

How do you know how much active ingredient you are giving them if you mix some powder in their feed?

I wanted to follow up with you and make sure your squared away with dosage. Check your progress.

 

[Mason Farm and Ranch]

I have learned that Nessa is a Red Sex-Link. Unfortunately at the same time, I learned their life expectancy is only 2-3 years. Nessa turns 3 November 4th.

I've been fighting to prolong a life that is coming to an end naturally.

Bea is also a Red Sex-Link. She just turned 1. I'm a bit upset about it altogether.

I'm pretty sure Chinese Skullcap isn't going to fix old age. Nessa is declining rapidly. I expect her to pass soon. I am making her as comfortable as possible and administering something for pain. She's hanging with Henry and seems content. I am discontinuing all protocols for her with the exception of what is in the feed as I make it in bulk.

I missed your post.

Maintenance dose is 200mg to kg of feed. It mates out to around 25mg of Baicalin content per bird.

It's being fed in various ways. Added to feed, served in an evening meal of drops.

 

[Mason Farm and Ranch]

Thank you for sharing your experiences! I'm trying to treat a little mille d'uccle hen. I'm terrible with dosages and how to administer - how did you measure the 425 mg? I see capsules of 800- what I just give her half of that in her food or water? Or would I mix that into something I would administer via dropper? Still learning about medicating chickens so I hope this isn't too stupid a question :-(

How's your Millie doing?

 

[Mason Farm and Ranch]

Not so far, I had a tough time getting it, but I have it now Will be giving it to a couple of chronic sick ones to see if things improve—it’s just been soooo hot I don’t want to stress them more.

How's your flock doing?

 

[goats-n-oats]

The reason there is no information on holistic treatment is because the pharma companies are making bank with vaccinating >100m chickens a year.

Marek's is a herpes virus (same family as chicken pox and Epstein Barr (chronic fatigue) viruses). Lysine is known to stop herpes virus replication as well. Lysine is a common amino acid and found in drugstores. Interestingly, there were many reports of backyard egg producers not getting any eggs this time last year. They claim that Tractor Supply removed lysine from their chicken feed.

 

[Mason Farm and Ranch]

Let's take a moment to acknowledge that sometimes you can't save her.

In reading the various posts, you will see that in some cases I was aware that the hen wasn't likely to make it and often did not.

Marek's ravages a birds system and in many cases, the tumors can cause issues that won't resolve even after recovery from the virus. I continue to educate myself, taking classes whenever available. In a recent class I learned about Saplingitis.

Saplingitis occurs when the 'funnel' that catches the ovum and sends it through the oviduct is shifted out of place. It then allows the ovum to fall into the abdominal cavity. In many cases this only occurs occasionally and the hen may reabsorb the yolk. But if the 'funnel' has bed shifted permanently, the ovum continue to fall. They solidify in the abdominal cavity causing pressure to internal organs and constricting the GI tract and reproductive system. This isn't a curable condition. It causes the hen great pain.

The longer your hen is battling Marek's, the higher the possibility it will damage the reproductive system and cause Saplingitis.

This is one of the few reasons I have ever euthanized a hen.

 

[Sandrina]

Like most backyard chickens keeps, it has been a bit of a disappointment to find out how much misinformation about chicken keeping there is out there.

I love my girls and I weep openly every time I lose one. My learning years have been harsh and heartbreaking, but my refusal to accept culling being an only option has been fruitful. I hope what I have recently discovered proves useful.

I was losing chickens. They'd be fine one day and dead the next. I have a rotating regimen of worming, pest control, protazoa abatement and bi-weekly, hands on exams. Still, fine one day, dead the next.

Like a good chook mom, all my girls are vaccinated. Turns out, that may not be so good. I recently read on BYC that the Marek's vaccine really does nothing useful. It does not prevent the transmission or contracting the virus, nor does it prevent the development of the disease. (Having the virus or the disease are 2 different things).

All the vaccine does is suppress symptoms. So if your chooks have the virus and develop the disease, they pretty much die without you knowing what killed them.

Every article I had read up to that point said there is no cure, no treatment, the most humane thing you can do is cull the bird to keep them from an agonizing death.

Well, I don't accept that. Marek's is a virus. Viruses have treatments. So I went hunting. Turns out that not only am I right, I'm not the only one giving the traditional data side-eye.

I found several clinical studies and a white paper out of China discussing several chicken viruses and the use of Chinese Skullcap. You can read two of the clinical studies on poultrydmv.org.

It basically rolled down to the herb Having the ability to shut the virus off, returning it to its dormant stage. They tested it with success on Marek's, Avian Flu and Mycoplasma Gallisepticum a/k/a Bubbleye (CRD).

A compilation of this single symptoms my chickens were exhibiting pointed to Marek's Disease. One had wing paralysis, two were limping, egg production was down, pale combs, ruffled feathers and weight loss was abundant and my boss hen, a Silver Wyandotte named Rogue, developed a cataract, she was going blind. I thought they were all soon to be dead.

I read on. 80% of fowl carry the Marek's virus. It mutates and can become quite deadly. But for the most part, it remains dormant. Birds carrying the virus, spread the virus.

So if 80% of fowl carry the virus and the standard recommendation is to cull the birds, wouldn't that wipe out the fowl population? It seems a tad counter productive. Ya think?

I found the clinical studies and poultrydmv.org confirmed my findings of 425mg, one time daily but no length of treatment is given. I went with 3 days.

Rouge was first in line. 425mg for 3 days. Then I decided to repeat in a week.

That was a month ago. Rogue is returning to normal. No longer a complacent lump, she's making rounds and kicking cloacas.

My other birds are recovering. I'm still treating the non-symptomatic birds.

I hope this is helpful.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8463782/

Antiviral effect of baicalin on Marek's disease virus in CEF cells:

https://doi.org/10.1186/s12917-020-02595-x

Baicalin (Scutellaria baicalensis) extract

100-200 mg/kg of diet

F Yang et al., 2020; Y Zhou et al., 2019; B Yin et al., 2021; M Bao et al., 2022; Z Hu et al., 2022

I found your post incredibly interesting! I’ve been digging for info and found the same clinical studies and I’m feeling hopeful.
I have a suspected (by necropsy) Marek’s flock. The original birds came in May 2022, I started losing some by August, initial symptoms were leg paralysis.
Fast forward to March 2023, I brought in vaccinated chicks and recently lost 2 of them as well as one original, a beautiful Cochin.
I agree the info online is so conflicting…
The question I have is in what form to you give the Chinese skullcap? I have a tincture, but thinking the alcohol could be a problem. I’ve found powdered root, but not sure how to dose it… any suggestions?