Viable treatment for Marek's Disease.

[RubyLady]

My math had to be updated. 1 Tbsp of powder treats 30 birds daily. Mix it in their food. I serve a 'Chicken Dinner in the coop, at dark.

The tincture is 1 ml 2 X daily. This is the dosage for a sick bird.

I have no problem dosing birds with the tincture.

Put the bird on your left side. Hold by the head, pinned with your forearm.

Stretch the neck, tilt head up and to the right. Pry beak open with the tip of your finger by putting pressure on the skin wear the beak meets the head. (Lips?).

Insert dropper into the right side of the beak and empty on the back right side of the mouth.

Cl8se beak immediately and put head back straight and level with body.

Let go.

Thank you. I've seen how a feeding tube is inserted on the right (the bird's right) and how the esophagus is to the right so that helps confirm that I can do it without drowning the chicken.

 

[Mason Farm and Ranch]

I have an issue, need help/ideas. I am at the 7 month/30 week mark for my grow outs. They are completely integrated with the flock.

Nobody is sick. I can't afford to test all of them, but since they weren't vaccinated, a positive PCR would be undeniable confirmation of a positive flock.

My thoughts are, because of the shedding, they would all test positive, so it wouldn't matter.

Thoughts? I'll need to test in the next 7- 21 days. That's my 30 week mark.

 

[RubyLady]

I have an issue, need help/ideas. I am at the 7 month/30 week mark for my grow outs. They are completely integrated with the flock.

Nobody is sick. I can't afford to test all of them, but since they weren't vaccinated, a positive PCR would be undeniable confirmation of a positive flock.

My thoughts are, because of the shedding, they would all test positive, so it wouldn't matter.

Thoughts? I'll need to test in the next 7- 21 days. That's my 30 week mark.

Are you taking whether or not you should test them? I'm not clear what the question is.

But I can relate in that I have 10 12 week old pullets and now I'm down to five out of 11 hens that saw a wave of (most probably but not tested) Marek's. We did consider all other possible illnesses/conditions and treated for vitamins and other possibilities, but all the birds who died had classic Marek's symptoms and did not respond to vitamin, wormer, or other treatments.

The hens and pullets are not integrated and we're holding off moving the older hens back into the winter coop area (which is more weather and predator protected and warmer overall) until the pullets are over 20 weeks old to give them fighting chance. They are in two separate living areas on my 3/4 acre. The hens are in a large fenced yard and summer coop. We've added a couple of small lean-tos, one covered with greenhouse tarp to give them protected areas for winter. I know the dander is in the air and there's nothing I can do about it, but the hens got sick after moving them out to the big yard for summer, so I'm pretty sure the infectious dander load is NOT where the little ones are. Plus the little ones are sleeping in their own coop addition - a kind of duplex now - so they aren't even living in the same coop as the older ones did.

My thoughts on whether or not to test has more to do with this question: Just how friendly is your local vet? How likely is he/she to report your flock and get the local extension/ag office involved that may force you to cull and clean and not have chickens for some time?

This is why I didn't take my birds in. I'm not selling them, or giving them away. A neighbor about 4 houses away has free-ranging chickens and they haven't had this problem according to their kids whom I know well although they say they've "lost" several hens but I don't know if that means illness or predators. We have wild birds in the feed all day long in high summer in that summer yard so there's nothing we can do about it except, next year, create a feeding area that is covered by netting overhead with a small door wild birds will be less likely to fly through so close to the ground. But it WILL still happen periodically.....and it only takes that one wild bird infected with something.

So, I say why bother to test? Unless you need to sell chickens and need to know. But you could be risking your ability to have a flock at all if authorities decide to dictate what you can and can't do.

Looking long-term, I'm hoping to raise a young rooster and if he makes it, breed these survivors for disease resistance and eliminate the need to introduce any new birds at all if I can help it. Our rooster died of unrelated issues last spring.

 

[Mason Farm and Ranch]

Are you taking whether or not you should test them? I'm not clear what the question is.

But I can relate in that I have 10 12 week old pullets and now I'm down to five out of 11 hens that saw a wave of (most probably but not tested) Marek's. We did consider all other possible illnesses/conditions and treated for vitamins and other possibilities, but all the birds who died had classic Marek's symptoms and did not respond to vitamin, wormer, or other treatments.

The hens and pullets are not integrated and we're holding off moving the older hens back into the winter coop area (which is more weather and predator protected and warmer overall) until the pullets are over 20 weeks old to give them fighting chance. They are in two separate living areas on my 3/4 acre. The hens are in a large fenced yard and summer coop. We've added a couple of small lean-tos, one covered with greenhouse tarp to give them protected areas for winter. I know the dander is in the air and there's nothing I can do about it, but the hens got sick after moving them out to the big yard for summer, so I'm pretty sure the infectious dander load is NOT where the little ones are. Plus the little ones are sleeping in their own coop addition - a kind of duplex now - so they aren't even living in the same coop as the older ones did.

My thoughts on whether or not to test has more to do with this question: Just how friendly is your local vet? How likely is he/she to report your flock and get the local extension/ag office involved that may force you to cull and clean and not have chickens for some time?

This is why I didn't take my birds in. I'm not selling them, or giving them away. A neighbor about 4 houses away has free-ranging chickens and they haven't had this problem according to their kids whom I know well although they say they've "lost" several hens but I don't know if that means illness or predators. We have wild birds in the feed all day long in high summer in that summer yard so there's nothing we can do about it except, next year, create a feeding area that is covered by netting overhead with a small door wild birds will be less likely to fly through so close to the ground. But it WILL still happen periodically.....and it only takes that one wild bird infected with something.

So, I say why bother to test? Unless you need to sell chickens and need to know. But you could be risking your ability to have a flock at all if authorities decide to dictate what you can and can't do.

Looking long-term, I'm hoping to raise a young rooster and if he makes it, breed these survivors for disease resistance and eliminate the need to introduce any new birds at all if I can help it. Our rooster died of unrelated issues last spring.

I'm testing off grid. I'm using someone else's account.

I need to know if the prophylactic treatment is working. I've been dosing these birds daily since birth.

I've had numerous sudden deaths, several birds that wasted away, a definite case of Ocular Marek's and three birds who were exhibiting paralysis (1 included wing paralysis). Many who recovered with Treatment.

However, since I started, I've had no more wasting birds (1 case of tapeworms, but she responded to treatment), no more mysterious/sudden deaths and 1 case of paralysis that responded to more intensive treatment, but no other symptomatic birds.

There is a window in which young birds are most susceptible. Bantams are more susceptible. I hatched out 20 mixed breed Bantams and I've given them what was used as the prophylactic dosage since birth. They are at the end of the window of peak susceptibility. I need to know if they are Marek's positive. But no one is sick.

I can't afford to test 20 birds at $100 a pop. Do I pick one or two at random? Hens? Roosters? ...a lottery?

 

[RubyLady]

I'm testing off grid. I'm using someone else's account.

I need to know if the prophylactic treatment is working. I've been dosing these birds daily since birth.

I've had numerous sudden deaths, several birds that wasted away, a definite case of Ocular Marek's and three birds who were exhibiting paralysis (1 included wing paralysis). Many who recovered with Treatment.

However, since I started, I've had no more wasting birds (1 case of tapeworms, but she responded to treatment), no more mysterious/sudden deaths and 1 case of paralysis that responded to more intensive treatment, but no other symptomatic birds.

There is a window in which young birds are most susceptible. Bantams are more susceptible. I hatched out 20 mixed breed Bantams and I've given them what was used as the prophylactic dosage since birth. They are at the end of the window of peak susceptibility. I need to know if they are Marek's positive. But no one is sick.

I can't afford to test 20 birds at $100 a pop. Do I pick one or two at random? Hens? Roosters? ...a lottery?

Oh, I see now. If you can find anything on the statistics of marek's in flock populations, that might give you a number to test and see if you can afford that. I mean, I don't know what percentage of any flock where there is or night be Marek's becomes infected (though not necessarily symptomatic), but if you had that percentage, you could at least test based on that percentage. The higher the percentage, the fewer birds you would have to test.

 

[Mason Farm and Ranch]

Oh, I see now. If you can find anything on the statistics of marek's in flock populations, that might give you a number to test and see if you can afford that. I mean, I don't know what percentage of any flock where there is or night be Marek's becomes infected (though not necessarily symptomatic), but if you had that percentage, you could at least test based on that percentage. The higher the percentage, the fewer birds you would have to test.

It's projected to be 80%.

 

[RubyLady]

It's projected to be 80%.

Okay. So if you had 10 young ones, you'd have to test three of them as 20% could be free of infection and you could be sure that if you had tested those two in your sample, you had also tested one more. Statistically anyway. Four would probably be better.

Of course, the problem is that 80% might be an average and it's possible that you happen to be testing the only non-infected birds. But I find that very unlikely.

So you'd probably want to test 25-30% of your birds to be sure. If you need to.

If you don't absolutely have to, then maybe you shouldn't go through all that expense.

 

[Mason Farm and Ranch]

Okay. So if you had 10 young ones, you'd have to test three of them as 20% could be free of infection and you could be sure that if you had tested those two in your sample, you had also tested one more. Statistically anyway. Four would probably be better.

Of course, the problem is that 80% might be an average and it's possible that you happen to be testing the only non-infected birds. But I find that very unlikely.

So you'd probably want to test 25-30% of your birds to be sure. If you need to.

If you don't absolutely have to, then maybe you shouldn't go through all that expense.

I don't see the math in that. At all. And I'm going to rest 2, possibly 3. I'm looking for confirmation of infection.

I'm asking if anyone has any thoughts on what I might look for in making my selection.

 

[RubyLady]

I don't see the math in that. At all. And I'm going to rest 2, possibly 3. I'm looking for confirmation of infection.

I'm asking if anyone has any thoughts on what I might look for in making my selection.

Well, I'm not that good with math, but if you had 10 birds and expected 80% to be infected, that would be 8 birds. So you'd have to test at least 3 to see if ANY were infected as 2 of the three could be the 20% not infected. That's how I came to that conclusion.

 

[lightm]

My thoughts are, because of the shedding, they would all test positive, so it wouldn't matter.

Have you picked your birds to test? I think I am too late to answer. I might have to agree that they may test all positive due to shedding.

However, if we do go with the 80% rate, then I will pick 3 birds at random to test. With 3 birds, if treatment is ineffective, there is

• 0.2*0.2*0.2 = 0.008 ≈ 1% chance that ALL THREE tests are negative.

So if all three tests are negative, then you've been very successful.
(The chance for exactly one positive test is about 10%, still pretty rare. So even if it came back with one positive test, you are still doing good.)