LGD pup - gate conflict UPDATE pg 6

[watchdogps]

Re: Laingcrofts post - excellent points about the pen size, I totally missed that. I am assuming you were referring to my post mentioing killing animals. Please reread it. I didn't say it was expected, now acceptable, but that even if it happens it does not mean the dog is hopeless.

 

[Shayna]

I think you should follow your gut. If this puppy's aggression concerns you, maybe give it a little more time to see if it can be trained, but beware please. I would hate for you to see a surprise attack one day and I find it's behavior alarming at this age.

 

[watchdogps]

Sounds to me like your goats are the jerks! Sounds like he has gotten nailed coming through the door and he is wary. He probably goes after Seka while this happens out of frustration.

 

[Laingcroft]

Quote:
Actually that was a general reference by implication from several posts - not yours specifically. Didn't say it was wrong for someone to tolerate some things, I said I disagree and that it was unacceptable behavior for me. I also assume that the following scenario was implied, not an intentional/hunting kill which is definitely a hopeless case in my book. I'll explain - dogs in a pack i.e. family unit - generally do not fight to the death or kill their siblings, there are postures, body language and vocalizations to prevent that. (And yes, I know this isn't always true in a multi-dog household, particularly one with females that don't really like each other.

A good LGD bonds with his flock/herd and they become his family unit. He may play chase as a very young pup with mouthing (usually grabbing rear legs or flanks) but as soon as the stock vocalizes pain, the pup should instinctively stop. Unfortunately, it can result in a fatal injury. If the owner never leaves the dog unsupervised until he is past the puppy stage, this will never occur. If however, the dog is unsupervised and decides this is a fun activity because there is no correction, it becomes very hard habit to break.
I wouldn't keep an animal as an LGD who has killed stock - intentional or not. Others may very well give him a second, third or more chance. Again, just my opinion.

 

[eggdd]

i think he's a puppy. correct his behavior in a general, typical manner. isn't this phase called "training"?

 

[Jamie_Dog_Trainer]

Quote:
This is what I've said a couple of times already. He's wary, something is causing his issue (dare I use that word). This will probably work out on its own, but the OP asked for information which I gave.

 

[Laingcroft]

Quote:
That makes a huge difference.

I don't envy your situation, you've got a lot on your plate to deal with and it could be why you're stressing so much about this. It sounds like everyone - goats included - are still trying to adjust to the new home and new farm dynamics. If the goats were not raised with LGD it is a little more difficult.


Quote:
Personally, I would close the dogs in while at work and rig up some kind of hog panel extension into the pasture for the goats so they have more room and so the dogs feel a bit less pressure too. Once home from work, feed everyone in their separate enclosures then let the dogs out into the pasture first to run and play with each other, do their inspection/marking routine and in general get their puppy fidgets out before turning the goats loose in the large pasture with them. Go about your chores keeping an eye on everyone without the dogs being aware if possible. Then bed everyone down again for the night.

As a side note, 6 months is old enough for the first heat cycle, that may have something to do with all the fussing too. Best to get that boy fixed soon or figure out how to keep them apart for a couple of weeks. Also, Turk will need some personal space while he recovers too. He probably won't be feeling to social or tolerant for a few days

Hopefully things will work out and settle down with more space for everyone. Excellent point about taking out frustrations on sibling (human kids do this all the time!) Definitely think it's probably a turf issue. Our dogs always had a place to get away from the stock when they needed it whether it be a dog house, on/under picnic table, woodpile, or an old stump.

 

[zzGypsy]

mmm.... on the heat cycle. I get paid once a month, and that happens monday, so wednesday he goes for fixing. haven't seen any indications of heat behavior from either of the dogs, so as long as that holds for another week, we're fine.

as someone already speculated, I do sometimes overanalyze things, expecially when I'm not as experienced as I'd like to be on a task. and yeah, life's not stress free right now (but hey, when is it ever?)

these goats were not raised with dogs ... that's true with the livestock coming from CA too.

a few years ago we had a dog that was super sweet with people, and with my other two dogs, but very fence-agressive with the neighbor's dogs. was working with that and not making fast progress, but enough to try and continue. and then that dog, who'd shown no aggression with my livestock attacked and killed two adult sheep and mauled a third so badly it had to be put down. that dog was 1/3 the size these pups are now, so I'm mindful of what a dog can do if they get too far out of line. probably contributes to my eagerness to manage this interaction.

 

[zzGypsy]

Quote:
haven't figured out how to do that effectively as the dogs and the goats are the same size.

 

[terrilhb]

ZZ I read your posts regurarly. I personally think you are trying to fix everything before it gets bad. Heck I am no dog expert. Look at some of my posts. But you are trying and learning. Good job. And yes when is life not hectic and crazy with farm animals. Keep up your research and listen to Jamie and other ones. Personally for me Jaimie has helped me immensley. Watchdogs has helped me too. Take everything that is being said and try to fit it in to best fit your situation. Just remember telling it on here and getting help is not the same as someone seeing it in person. Learned the hard way. But alot of people seem to be giving you great info. Disclaimer. I mentioned Jaimie cause she has helped me so many times and watchdog has too. Nothing against anyone else. I think you seem to be on the right track. Looking for help and working on the issues. Don't give up till you have to. Good luck.