Anyone else have LGDs?? I am in serious need of advice!!

[Ozarkhomesteader]

There is not much on here about livestock guardian dogs, but I figure some people have them, so here goes! Literally any advice is appreciated.

THE BACKSTORY:
ok, so I've wanted and LGD for years and years. Was never ready, but have been researching them for years. I've read every article I could find about them!
Back in November, my dad's coworker was getting rid of a 6 month old great Pyrenees/newfoundland for free. This pup was born on a sheep farm to working parents, but since being with this new family, he had no training whatsoever (didn't even know what a collar or leash was). He was around free range chickens and never touched them. And shared a fenceline with goats. He is also so stinking sweet and cute. We decided to give it a shot, and find him a new home if it didn't work out. I figured I would get some solid hands on experience working with a dog.

THE TRAINING
Upon coming home, he has a separate pen where he can see all my poultry, sheep and pigs. I would exercise him vigorously off leash morning and evening, and in the afternoons we would do training sessions (basic training around stock, and teaching him to ignore the poultry.) From the beginning he has been very playful, and wants to chase everything and play with it to death. A few months later I introduced an e-collar (before y'all get mad at me, I have used these with my shepherds, I had training with a professional trainer how to use them well, and have been very careful in how/when I use it. It provides a great way for me to give him more freedom, but still have a way to correct him when he is trying to kill my stock.

Now he is running free all night, but must be penned up during the day when I'm not around, as he is completely not trust worthy with the animals. I LOVE the peace of mind he brings protecting the place at night.

THE PROBLEM

Despite all this, he really just wants to be with people. He is not bonded to stock at all. I'm not really expecting him to bond with the animals, I was just hoping for a good guardian to protect the property...I only have a few sheep, so really the most important to me is keeping predators away from the area in general, and especially my poultry. He is decent about staying in the fence, and when he does get out, he just comes and finds us, as people are his absolute favorite thing ever. But it's been 7 months, and he has not gotten better with poultry at all. He has only killed 2 birds, but really tries hard, and I am very careful about how and when he interacts. He was severely corrected both times (but the most recent was a guinea he killed overnight, so I didn't catch him in the act...just the aftermath.) But he is quite hardheaded!


I know from all my research that they are not really reliable until 2 yrs, and completely expected that! However, I think both me and my parents are worried as he didn't have the initial bonding and training for 4 or 5 important beginning months. Everyone seems to have a different opinion...one local poultry breeder who has a few says it takes going through a few dogs to find the one that is good with poultry...my stubborn self doesn't particularly want to accept that. And others says most will kill some and then turn out great later!


So am I wasting my time with him? Has anyone ever trained an older dog to be reliable around poultry?

We really love this big dork, he is amazing in so many ways! But we are a tad worried he will never work out and we should find him a new home. I am seriously stubborn and want to just keep trying, but ultimately I want what is best for him, and if that is new pet home, maybe that is what should happen. My parents are opposite and think we need to re-home him asap. I'm just so torn you guys, I really love this dog!

So please, if ANYONE has insight, advice, things to try or train, I would so appreciate it! I want to hear you stories and training methods!!!

Thank you for reading my ridiculously long post, and in advance for any responses.

 

[ButtonHoarder]

I don’t know if many people on here have LGDs, but I know lots of people on BackyardHerds do, you might get more help there.

 

[Allsfairinloveandbugs]

I have LGDs to protect my chickens and goats. Number 1, you have done many things right to try and teach your puppy to be safe around your livestock. In no way do I think you need to rehome him yet, but patience and consistency on your part will be very necessary going forward. He is now in his "teenager years", and that is the stage when many puppies begin killing the livestock they were supposed to protect, whether they have had prior training or not. This is also the stage when many "house pets" become unruly and are turned in to shelters.

I recently wrote a puppy training article, and will soon follow up with an adult dog training article. In no way do I fault you for using an ecollar; the only issue I see is that you probably used it Before your puppy understood what is expected of him. I will link the article here. After you read it, tag me here if you have more questions. (And please rate and review if you found it helpful.)

The puppy I featured in the article (Echo) has a temperament much like your guy. She is 1/2 Great Pyrenese (has double dewclaws to prove it) and 1/2 Labrador Retriever. She craves be petted more than anything else, & also has the very high energy level of a Labrador retriever from field trial lines. But more than her temperament, as she entered her juvenile stage, months of weather-related issues put a halt to her training during her late juvenile/early adolescent stages. When I resumed training her, I needed to go back to basic foundation-training, which is what you will need to do too if you hope to have your puppy become trustworthy around your livestock.

You will hear different methods to train a dog to be reliable around livestock. As long as the dog owner succeeds in reaching their goals, that is the important thing. I have "only" trained 4 LGDs, but spent my career training and competing at the national level in a competive dog sport, and many of those years were also spent teaching hundreds of people to train and compete with thousands of their own dogs. While every individual is unique, there are some traits every dog has in common, including that nearly every puppy is "playful", and will try to play with anything that looks fun, which includes frolicking goats and squawky, flappy chickens. I worked with hundreds of breeds, but a Newfoundland was not one of them, so I am unfamiliar with their temperament traits. But the important thing is that you adore your puppy and want to teach him to be trustworthy around your poultry. It will take several months (at least) before you can trust him, and the keys are consistency, repetition and patience on your part, as well as the need for your puppy to become more settled and less energetic as he enters into adulthood. But from what you said in your post, I absolutely believe you can do it, and do Not advise you to give up on your puppy. Good luck, and again, tag me here if you have further questions.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...-to-be-trustworthy-around-your-poultry.78407/

 

[Ozarkhomesteader]

I have LGDs to protect my chickens and goats. Number 1, you have done many things right to try and teach your puppy to be safe around your livestock. In no way do I think you need to rehome him yet, but patience and consistency on your part will be very necessary going forward. He is now in his "teenager years", and that is the stage when many puppies begin killing the livestock they were supposed to protect, whether they have had prior training or not. This is also the stage when many "house pets" become unruly and are turned in to shelters.

I recently wrote a puppy training article, and will soon follow up with an adult dog training article. In no way do I fault you for using an ecollar; the only issue I see is that you probably used it Before your puppy understood what is expected of him. I will link the article here. After you read it, tag me here if you have more questions. (And please rate and review if you found it helpful.)

The puppy I featured in the article (Echo) has a temperament much like your guy. She is 1/2 Great Pyrenese (has double dewclaws to prove it) and 1/2 Labrador Retriever. She craves be petted more than anything else, & also has the very high energy level of a Labrador retriever from field trial lines. But more than her temperament, as she entered her juvenile stage, months of weather-related issues put a halt to her training during her late juvenile/early adolescent stages. When I resumed training her, I needed to go back to basic foundation-training, which is what you will need to do too if you hope to have your puppy become trustworthy around your livestock.

You will hear different methods to train a dog to be reliable around livestock. As long as the dog owner succeeds in reaching their goals, that is the important thing. I have "only" trained 4 LGDs, but spent my career training and competing at the national level in a competive dog sport, and many of those years were also spent teaching hundreds of people to train and compete with thousands of their own dogs. While every individual is unique, there are some traits every dog has in common, including that nearly every puppy is "playful", and will try to play with anything that looks fun, which includes frolicking goats and squawky, flappy chickens. I worked with hundreds of breeds, but a Newfoundland was not one of them, so I am unfamiliar with their temperament traits. But the important thing is that you adore your puppy and want to teach him to be trustworthy around your poultry. It will take several months (at least) before you can trust him, and the keys are consistency, repetition and patience on your part, as well as the need for your puppy to become more settled and less energetic as he enters into adulthood. But from what you said in your post, I absolutely believe you can do it, and do Not advise you to give up on your puppy. Good luck, and again, tag me here if you have further questions.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...-to-be-trustworthy-around-your-poultry.78407/

Thank you so much!! This has definitely given me hope. I LOVE your article, how have I not found that in all my research?? It was very well written and real. I will be referencing that a ton! I am gonna keep trying with him. I had a dumb rabbit escape the pen this morning and he killed her but you are right, he is in those teenage years! If I can be consistent with his training and weather this crazy time, hopefully he will learn proper interaction with the birds!

Yes, looking back I agree on the e-collar part...I think I was wanting bigger progress before he understood! We have since taken a step back from that. I look forward to your adult dog article! The puppy one is very helpful. I love all the commands you teach them, I think that is something we should focus on more...my boy definitely needs it!

Also the water bottle toy idea is really good! Give him some redirection for his drive.

Thanks again, sorry it took so long to respond lol it's been a hectic couple weeks and I forgot about this place.

 

[Allsfairinloveandbugs]

Thank you so much!! This has definitely given me hope. I LOVE your article, how have I not found that in all my research?? It was very well written and real. I will be referencing that a ton! I am gonna keep trying with him. I had a dumb rabbit escape the pen this morning and he killed her but you are right, he is in those teenage years! If I can be consistent with his training and weather this crazy time, hopefully he will learn proper interaction with the birds!

Yes, looking back I agree on the e-collar part...I think I was wanting bigger progress before he understood! We have since taken a step back from that. I look forward to your adult dog article! The puppy one is very helpful. I love all the commands you teach them, I think that is something we should focus on more...my boy definitely needs it!

Also the water bottle toy idea is really good! Give him some redirection for his drive.

Thanks again, sorry it took so long to respond lol it's been a hectic couple weeks and I forgot about this place.

Darn on him killing the rabbit. Your boy definitely needs to learn that the chickens and rabbits are yours, and not his to play with and kill. Dogs are very smart and he can learn.

 

[cassie]

There is not much on here about livestock guardian dogs, but I figure some people have them, so here goes! Literally any advice is appreciated.

THE BACKSTORY:
ok, so I've wanted and LGD for years and years. Was never ready, but have been researching them for years. I've read every article I could find about them!
Back in November, my dad's coworker was getting rid of a 6 month old great Pyrenees/newfoundland for free. This pup was born on a sheep farm to working parents, but since being with this new family, he had no training whatsoever (didn't even know what a collar or leash was). He was around free range chickens and never touched them. And shared a fenceline with goats. He is also so stinking sweet and cute. We decided to give it a shot, and find him a new home if it didn't work out. I figured I would get some solid hands on experience working with a dog.

THE TRAINING
Upon coming home, he has a separate pen where he can see all my poultry, sheep and pigs. I would exercise him vigorously off leash morning and evening, and in the afternoons we would do training sessions (basic training around stock, and teaching him to ignore the poultry.) From the beginning he has been very playful, and wants to chase everything and play with it to death. A few months later I introduced an e-collar (before y'all get mad at me, I have used these with my shepherds, I had training with a professional trainer how to use them well, and have been very careful in how/when I use it. It provides a great way for me to give him more freedom, but still have a way to correct him when he is trying to kill my stock.

Now he is running free all night, but must be penned up during the day when I'm not around, as he is completely not trust worthy with the animals. I LOVE the peace of mind he brings protecting the place at night.

THE PROBLEM

Despite all this, he really just wants to be with people. He is not bonded to stock at all. I'm not really expecting him to bond with the animals, I was just hoping for a good guardian to protect the property...I only have a few sheep, so really the most important to me is keeping predators away from the area in general, and especially my poultry. He is decent about staying in the fence, and when he does get out, he just comes and finds us, as people are his absolute favorite thing ever. But it's been 7 months, and he has not gotten better with poultry at all. He has only killed 2 birds, but really tries hard, and I am very careful about how and when he interacts. He was severely corrected both times (but the most recent was a guinea he killed overnight, so I didn't catch him in the act...just the aftermath.) But he is quite hardheaded!


I know from all my research that they are not really reliable until 2 yrs, and completely expected that! However, I think both me and my parents are worried as he didn't have the initial bonding and training for 4 or 5 important beginning months. Everyone seems to have a different opinion...one local poultry breeder who has a few says it takes going through a few dogs to find the one that is good with poultry...my stubborn self doesn't particularly want to accept that. And others says most will kill some and then turn out great later!


So am I wasting my time with him? Has anyone ever trained an older dog to be reliable around poultry?

We really love this big dork, he is amazing in so many ways! But we are a tad worried he will never work out and we should find him a new home. I am seriously stubborn and want to just keep trying, but ultimately I want what is best for him, and if that is new pet home, maybe that is what should happen. My parents are opposite and think we need to re-home him asap. I'm just so torn you guys, I really love this dog!

So please, if ANYONE has insight, advice, things to try or train, I would so appreciate it! I want to hear you stories and training methods!!!

Thank you for reading my ridiculously long post, and in advance for any responses.

I used to have Komondors. As you know, LGDs are hard headed, independent thinkers, and slooow to mature. They are essentially big puppies until they are about two. Fortunately, mine ignored the poultry so I can't give you much advice on that. Bear in mind that poultry and rabbits really bring out the prey drive in dogs. You might see if you can find some forums for people with sheep and meat goats. I have also come across excellent advice on some Boer breeders' web sites. Sheep and meat goat (as opposed to dairy goat) producers are the people who use LGD's. Sometimes they even know of working LGD'S available. Maybe somebody went out of business or something. It has been some time since I was actively involved with Koms or livestock, but if memory serves there are some books available on using and training LGD's. Be sure any book you get is about LGD'S, not herding dogs. Hope this helps.

 

[Hip Hillbilly Acres]

There is not much on here about livestock guardian dogs, but I figure some people have them, so here goes! Literally any advice is appreciated.

THE BACKSTORY:
ok, so I've wanted and LGD for years and years. Was never ready, but have been researching them for years. I've read every article I could find about them!
Back in November, my dad's coworker was getting rid of a 6 month old great Pyrenees/newfoundland for free. This pup was born on a sheep farm to working parents, but since being with this new family, he had no training whatsoever (didn't even know what a collar or leash was). He was around free range chickens and never touched them. And shared a fenceline with goats. He is also so stinking sweet and cute. We decided to give it a shot, and find him a new home if it didn't work out. I figured I would get some solid hands on experience working with a dog.

THE TRAINING
Upon coming home, he has a separate pen where he can see all my poultry, sheep and pigs. I would exercise him vigorously off leash morning and evening, and in the afternoons we would do training sessions (basic training around stock, and teaching him to ignore the poultry.) From the beginning he has been very playful, and wants to chase everything and play with it to death. A few months later I introduced an e-collar (before y'all get mad at me, I have used these with my shepherds, I had training with a professional trainer how to use them well, and have been very careful in how/when I use it. It provides a great way for me to give him more freedom, but still have a way to correct him when he is trying to kill my stock.

Now he is running free all night, but must be penned up during the day when I'm not around, as he is completely not trust worthy with the animals. I LOVE the peace of mind he brings protecting the place at night.

THE PROBLEM

Despite all this, he really just wants to be with people. He is not bonded to stock at all. I'm not really expecting him to bond with the animals, I was just hoping for a good guardian to protect the property...I only have a few sheep, so really the most important to me is keeping predators away from the area in general, and especially my poultry. He is decent about staying in the fence, and when he does get out, he just comes and finds us, as people are his absolute favorite thing ever. But it's been 7 months, and he has not gotten better with poultry at all. He has only killed 2 birds, but really tries hard, and I am very careful about how and when he interacts. He was severely corrected both times (but the most recent was a guinea he killed overnight, so I didn't catch him in the act...just the aftermath.) But he is quite hardheaded!


I know from all my research that they are not really reliable until 2 yrs, and completely expected that! However, I think both me and my parents are worried as he didn't have the initial bonding and training for 4 or 5 important beginning months. Everyone seems to have a different opinion...one local poultry breeder who has a few says it takes going through a few dogs to find the one that is good with poultry...my stubborn self doesn't particularly want to accept that. And others says most will kill some and then turn out great later!


So am I wasting my time with him? Has anyone ever trained an older dog to be reliable around poultry?

We really love this big dork, he is amazing in so many ways! But we are a tad worried he will never work out and we should find him a new home. I am seriously stubborn and want to just keep trying, but ultimately I want what is best for him, and if that is new pet home, maybe that is what should happen. My parents are opposite and think we need to re-home him asap. I'm just so torn you guys, I really love this dog!

So please, if ANYONE has insight, advice, things to try or train, I would so appreciate it! I want to hear you stories and training methods!!!

Thank you for reading my ridiculously long post, and in advance for any responses.

I know exactly what you mean about falling in love with him. The breed is wonderful (preaching to the choir). We have TWO, count 'em - two, liter mates. No chicken killing, but will play with them too hard sometimes. And there's the chickens wanting to eat their food. My pyrs ain't having that - especially the male. Soji, my girl is SOOOO mild mannered.

 

[bigsurfwaves]

Yup. I feel your pain - my Pyr is eating chickens behind my back despite months of training. She's currently on house arrest with only supervised exercise during times that chickens are penned and not free ranging. It sucks.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

I can’t help with a dedicated LGD breed but I have a lot of experience free ranging mutts, catch dogs, and hunting dogs 24/7 with chickens.

I don’t think they have to bond with the chickens. They just have to learn they’re not allowed to catch them. All purpose hunting dogs are a lot like the LGDs; around 6 months their hunting drive kicks in and the desire to catch livestock can’t be shocked, beat, or rewarded out of them. It just takes them outgrowing it. I sent one of mine off farm for a year. Once she was past that stage, she was great with the chickens.

I find bulldogs easier to train because its not in their DNA to catch birds in the same way it is for them to want to kill large mammals. I can verbally scold my bulldog puppies into submission regarding chickens in a way I cannot if they’re catching a mammal.

Yard mutts are a random lot. Some won’t ever mess with chickens. Others will. The “tie a dead chicken to their collar” trick usually works.

I don’t find random dogs of normal breeds to be any less effective than dedicated LGD breeds. I’ve had an eclectic mix of outside, free range, dogs my entire life and they generally all did a good job of keeping the varmints at bay.

 

[Hip Hillbilly Acres]

I can’t help with a dedicated LGD breed but I have a lot of experience free ranging mutts, catch dogs, and hunting dogs 24/7 with chickens.

I don’t think they have to bond with the chickens. They just have to learn they’re not allowed to catch them. All purpose hunting dogs are a lot like the LGDs; around 6 months their hunting drive kicks in and the desire to catch livestock can’t be shocked, beat, or rewarded out of them. It just takes them outgrowing it. I sent one of mine off farm for a year. Once she was past that stage, she was great with the chickens.

I find bulldogs easier to train because its not in their DNA to catch birds in the same way it is for them to want to kill large mammals. I can verbally scold my bulldog puppies into submission regarding chickens in a way I cannot if they’re catching a mammal.

Yard mutts are a random lot. Some won’t ever mess with chickens. Others will. The “tie a dead chicken to their collar” trick usually works.

I don’t find random dogs of normal breeds to be any less effective than dedicated LGD breeds. I’ve had an eclectic mix of outside, free range, dogs my entire life and they generally all did a good job of keeping the varmints at bay.

This is ALL so excellent to know. I am glad you chimed in and helped. I'll be sharing this info.