Lice and Broody Hen - What do I do?

[Silverlilly1]

My chickens have lice. I tried providing some diatomaceous earth but they have a full-blown infestation. I have pyrethrin, but I know if you use it you have to get all the birds out of the house for treatment of the house, have to spray all the chickens, and have to discard eggs for some time afterwards.

Problem is, I have a broody hen sitting on a large clutch of eggs in the hen house. She’s been on them for about a week now and the whole reason I have chickens is to raise meat birds. I do not have an incubator yet but will in a couple of weeks (right about the time these ones should be hatching). I don’t want to infect the newly-hatched chicks with lice, so I need to get this dealt with somehow. What can I do?

I have two separate houses in the coop. One has not been used by me and needs to be cleaned out before it can be used - quite possibly sprayed for lice given that I believe my chickens got the lice from my landlord’s prior occupation of the coop. It does not have any nesting boxes. I know it can be impossible to move a broody hen mid-brood. I do know I will have to find some better place for the hen and chicks once they hatch because right now they’re in a nesting box about 2-3 feet off the floor.

What can I do? What is safe to do? I’m getting rather worried at this point.

 

[sylviethecochin]

I have pyrethrin

Permethrin? Permethrin is a chemically altered pyrethrin, made to be longer-lasting. Permethrin is very available. Pyrethrins are naturally-occurring, and break down very quickly in their unaltered original forms, so you may have to reapply several times if you have that.

but I know if you use it you have to get all the birds out of the house for treatment of the house,

I have never heard that, for pyrethrin or for permethrin. A thorough coop-cleaning is wise, but you can take a gallon pump-sprayer and get all of the chickens and your cleaned coop simultaneously.

have to spray all the chickens

Yes, especially around the vent area, if you can.

have to discard eggs for some time afterwards

No? Permethrin doesn't have a withdrawal period. Since pyrethrins break down more quickly than permethrin, they shouldn't either.

EDT: And it shouldn't hurt the eggs. I've used permethrin on nests before without noticeable issues.

 

[Silverlilly1]

Permethrin? Permethrin is a chemically altered pyrethrin, made to be longer-lasting. Permethrin is very available. Pyrethrins are naturally-occurring, and break down very quickly in their unaltered original forms, so you may have to reapply several times if you have that.

I have never heard that, for pyrethrin or for permethrin. A thorough coop-cleaning is wise, but you can take a gallon pump-sprayer and get all of the chickens and your cleaned coop simultaneously.

Yes, especially around the vent area, if you can.

No? Permethrin doesn't have a withdrawal period. Since pyrethrins break down more quickly than permethrin, they shouldn't either.

No, permethrin was not available. I was told it was not allowed to be sold anymore and that this stuff was all that was available now. The bottle clearly says to keep the hens out of the house for at least fifteen minutes after spraying and to discard eggs for 1-2 weeks afterward. You kind of have to believe what the bottle says.

I’m trying to figure out the best way to get rid of the lice from the coop and chickens without harming the existing eggs or broody and preventing the chicks from being harmed.

 

[sylviethecochin]

No, permethrin was not available. I was told it was not allowed to be sold anymore and that this stuff was all that was available now. The bottle clearly says to keep the hens out of the house for at least fifteen minutes after spraying and to discard eggs for 1-2 weeks afterward. You kind of have to believe what the bottle says.

I’m trying to figure out the best way to get rid of the lice from the coop and chickens without harming the existing eggs or broody and preventing the chicks from being harmed.

I'm afraid I don't believe what that bottle says, unless it contains some active ingredient besides pyrethrins. A product that wants you to spray it directly on the chickens, but not let the chickens into the sprayed coop makes no sense.

May I have a link to the product?

http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/pyrethrins.html

 

[Silverlilly1]

I'm afraid I don't believe what that bottle says, unless it contains some active ingredient besides pyrethrins. A product that wants you to spray it directly on the chickens, but not let the chickens into the sprayed coop makes no sense.

May I have a link to the product?

http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/pyrethrins.html

https://www.drugs.com/vet/doktor-doom-lice-killer-for-poultry-plus-commercial-can.html
If the person applying it shouldn’t stay in the room, a chicken shouldn’t either.

 

[sylviethecochin]

https://www.drugs.com/vet/doktor-doom-lice-killer-for-poultry-plus-commercial-can.html
If the person applying it shouldn’t stay in the room, a chicken shouldn’t either.

Pyrethrins and piperonyl butoxide. One's a natural insect killer found in chrysanthemums, and the latter extends the life of the former. Basically, you've got permethrin.

I'm going to say that this is a "may cause cancer in the state of California" situation. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19306908 finds that the toxicity of the combination is so low as to be practically nonexistent.

This is actually describing the treatment (topically) for human use.

I know I've seen piperonyl butoxide and pyrethrins in dog and horse shampoos. I'd feel completely safe bathing in what you've got.

It's up to you to use it or not, of course, but I'm going to say that "Doktor Doom" is a bit overdramatic.

 

[Silverlilly1]

Pyrethrins and piperonyl butoxide. One's a natural insect killer found in chrysanthemums, and the latter extends the life of the former. Basically, you've got permethrin.

I'm going to say that this is a "may cause cancer in the state of California" situation. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19306908 finds that the toxicity of the combination is so low as to be practically nonexistent.

This is actually describing the treatment (topically) for human use.

I know I've seen piperonyl butoxide and pyrethrins in dog and horse shampoos. I'd feel completely safe bathing in what you've got.

It's up to you to use it or not, of course, but I'm going to say that "Doktor Doom" is a bit overdramatic.

Thank you for your opinion of the brand name, which has nothing to do with anything here really. And the info about the origin of it. This is the only product I have available to me right now.

You’d feel safe bathing in it - you are a fully-formed human (I am supposing), not a group of cells turning into a baby chicken inside a permeable shell. But I still need practical answers to my questions about it’s safe use around developing embryos etc. A plan to get the flock in order safely using this and the available resources.

 

[PPPF]

I know lice are a problem, but can you hold off a few weeks and let your chicks hatch then take measures? Do you have dust baths? I’ve not had to deal with lice so I don’t know if ways to get rid of it, I was gonna say diatomaceous earth! But you already mentioned that! Sorry you’re having to deal with this.
Are your birds free range? Maybe kick everyone out of the coop/run if they’re not and just let broody be in there, so as to minimize the spread?

Good luck!

 

[Silverlilly1]

I know lice are a problem, but can you hold off a few weeks and let your chicks hatch then take measures? Do you have dust baths? I’ve not had to deal with lice so I don’t know if ways to get rid of it, I was gonna say diatomaceous earth! But you already mentioned that! Sorry you’re having to deal with this.
Are your birds free range? Maybe kick everyone out of the coop/run if they’re not and just let broody be in there, so as to minimize the spread?

Good luck!

Hi! The pen is large and the chickens do dust bathe in it in several places. But the chickens do need to roost and be closed up at night. I cannot free range the chickens as per my landlord. The lice infestation is pretty bad right now. I don’t really know what’s worse - treating them while the chicks are still in eggs or letting the chicks hatch and possibly catch lice and need to be treated too. That’s why the post and hope for experience to help me find a path forward.

I am really annoyed at the state my landlord let her chickens and coop get into when she had birds, but I have to deal with the current situation.

 

[PPPF]

Do you have access to wood ash?