Limping Chick - end Corid early to give Chick Boost?

[Lisa3315]

I have 9 chicks, a mix of probably 2-3 weeks old now, and all different breeds. The bird in question right now is a Salmon Favorelle - she's one of my smaller chicks, but her wings and tail feathers are farther along than the other chicks her size. She is limping, still able to get around and still eating and drinking, but she seems to be trying to get out of the way of the bigger chicks and she keeps sitting/laying down when she finds a quiet spot. I just noticed the limp yesterday, I checked her feet and I'm not really seeing anything out of the ordinary. She is smaller, and I have read that Salmon Favorelle are usually near the bottom of the pecking order anyway, so I moved her and another quieter/smaller chick into a separate brooder because I was worried she was going to get picked on. Her poop looks normal, she's been eating medicated chick food and water dosed with Corid. One of my chicks passed away on Monday night (3 days ago) from coccidia, so all of them have been getting Corid in their water since Monday afternoon.

My question is - should I end her Corid treatment early so I can start giving her Chick Boost Probiotics (Flock Pro)? I know you're supposed to have them on Corid for 5 days and it's only been 3 days for them, but I'm wondering if she would be better off getting the probiotics, vitamins, minerals, electrolytes from the Chick Boost to help with her limp?

Like I said, I've separate her and a friend into a different brooder, they have (medicated) food, water (currently with Corid), and they're on pine shavings. I'm not sure if it's relevant, but they have been on pine shavings and pine pellets.

 

[Eggcessive]

She might not be getting enough of the Corid water. Are you certain the chick that died had coccidiosis? You could give her undiltuted Corid 0.1 ml twice daily. Do you see any curling under of her toes on the leg she is limping? Could you try and get a clear picture of her legs from the front or back straight on?

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Couple of observations:
1. Was it really coccidiosis? You say your chicks are now only 2 to 3 weeks old. You've been treating for 3-ish days. That means they would have exhibited signs of Coccidiosis by week 2 latest. That really isn't enough time in the coccidia cycle to actually turn into illness. It takes about 4 weeks for the oocysts to grow, multiply, burst, be retaken again, grow in the gut, implant, burst, and then damage the gut enough to produce illness in the intestines. So I don't look for coccidiosis in very young chicks. (Typically you see it in 4 to 8 week olds). We feed medicated feed to gently hold off a coccidia infestation to acclimate them to the natural surroundings, which are almost certainly filled with coccidia as it is so common, so their body builds a natural immunity to staving off an infestation. Coccidia isn't a bacteria, it is a protozoan, so has a life cycle with maturity and reproduction....of about 4 weeks-ish.

2. Was your environment clean? Bacteria CAN grow in brooders quickly. Many early chick deaths are actually caused by eColi entrapped in their abdomens during hatching process. It is the number one cause of early chick death or failure to thrive.

3. You've had them on BOTH medicated chick feed AND corid in the water? You have to understand that amprolium is the medication in both medicated chick feed and Corid. The medicated feed is just a different percentage to mildly treat any coccidia (to allow natural immunity to build before an infestation can take over). Corid is the big guns for an infestation. Amprolium interferes with Vitamin B uptake. It literally starves the protozoan because they can't get enough Vitamin B and thus die. It also slows Vitamin B absorption in the chicken. I have personally found that if a chick is not infested with coccidia and is on medicated feed without need, you can create Vitamin B deficiency which is exhibited by odd leg behavior (I had weird toe walking with the chicks that were Vitamin B deficient). Treatment is immediate application of B vitamins (with minerals to boot) through Chick Saver or Chick Boost. I actually made a mistake in reading the dosage and doubled it the first day, but my Vet Tech daughter said it was probably a good idea as that gave them a loading dose the first day with regular dosage for the next week. After a couple of days, my chicks were walking normally again. I now do not feed medicated feed to my broody hatch, sustainable flock, as I typically simply deplete Vitamin B.

So can I say what is wrong with the SF? No. She might have failure to thrive. She may have been injured from the bigger chicks (as you say SF are always on the bottom of the pecking order). But I really doubt she had Coccidiosis, and she might be now Vitamin B deficient.

My thoughts. Keep us posted on her outcome.

LofMc

 

[Lisa3315]

Couple of observations:
1. Was it really coccidiosis? You say your chicks are now only 2 to 3 weeks old. You've been treating for 3-ish days. That means they would have exhibited signs of Coccidiosis by week 2 latest. That really isn't enough time in the coccidia cycle to actually turn into illness. It takes about 4 weeks for the oocysts to grow, multiply, burst, be retaken again, grow in the gut, implant, burst, and then damage the gut enough to produce illness in the intestines. So I don't look for coccidiosis in very young chicks. (Typically you see it in 4 to 8 week olds). We feed medicated feed to gently hold off a coccidia infestation to acclimate them to the natural surroundings, which are almost certainly filled with coccidia as it is so common, so their body builds a natural immunity to staving off an infestation. Coccidia isn't a bacteria, it is a protozoan, so has a life cycle with maturity and reproduction....of about 4 weeks-ish.

2. Was your environment clean? Bacteria CAN grow in brooders quickly. Many early chick deaths are actually caused by eColi entrapped in their abdomens during hatching process. It is the number one cause of early chick death or failure to thrive.

3. You've had them on BOTH medicated chick feed AND corid in the water? You have to understand that amprolium is the medication in both medicated chick feed and Corid. The medicated feed is just a different percentage to mildly treat any coccidia (to allow natural immunity to build before an infestation can take over). Corid is the big guns for an infestation. Amprolium interferes with Vitamin B uptake. It literally starves the protozoan because they can't get enough Vitamin B and thus die. It also slows Vitamin B absorption in the chicken. I have personally found that if a chick is not infested with coccidia and is on medicated feed without need, you can create Vitamin B deficiency which is exhibited by odd leg behavior (I had weird toe walking with the chicks that were Vitamin B deficient). Treatment is immediate application of B vitamins (with minerals to boot) through Chick Saver or Chick Boost. I actually made a mistake in reading the dosage and doubled it the first day, but my Vet Tech daughter said it was probably a good idea as that gave them a loading dose the first day with regular dosage for the next week. After a couple of days, my chicks were walking normally again. I now do not feed medicated feed to my broody hatch, sustainable flock, as I typically simply deplete Vitamin B.

So can I say what is wrong with the SF? No. She might have failure to thrive. She may have been injured from the bigger chicks (as you say SF are always on the bottom of the pecking order). But I really doubt she had Coccidiosis, and she might be now Vitamin B deficient.

My thoughts. Keep us posted on her outcome.

LofMc

Thanks for you response.

It's totally possible that the chick that passed away didn't have coccidiosis. When I noticed the chick was sick, I became pretty frantic and jut tried to jump into action, I assumed it was coccidiosis because of the symptoms and that seemed like the most common illness people were experiencing with their chicks. I have been really trying to keep their brooder clean (changing out all the bedding once or twice a day), but it could be possible I missed something?

And I was worried about failure to thrive with this SF, since it is pretty small still. I think I'm going to switch to the water with Corid for water with Chick Boost right now!

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Thanks for you response.

It's totally possible that the chick that passed away didn't have coccidiosis. When I noticed the chick was sick, I became pretty frantic and jut tried to jump into action, I assumed it was coccidiosis because of the symptoms and that seemed like the most common illness people were experiencing with their chicks. I have been really trying to keep their brooder clean (changing out all the bedding once or twice a day), but it could be possible I missed something?

And I was worried about failure to thrive with this SF, since it is pretty small still. I think I'm going to switch to the water with Corid for water with Chick Boost right now!

Don't be overly frantic if a young chick dies. As said, the main reason for early death in chicks is frequently bacteria overgrowth leftover from the hatching process (they literally draw up their egg yolk sack into their abdomen and close at navel, which if the egg has been pipped can introduce bacteria to the gut).

Sometimes you simply lose one for oh so many reasons. I doubt it was your brooder. You are keeping it clean. Be sure to have the temps right. You should be good.

As to the SF, they are a more delicate breed. Good luck with her <3
LofMc

 

[Lisa3315]

Thank you @Lady of McCamley and @Eggcessive for your help last week! I wanted to give an update on my SF chick. I kept her and another small chick in a separate brooder overnight, took everyone off of Corid and put them all on Chick Boost. I put the SF and the other little chick back with the other chicks the next afternoon because they were acting pretty sad and lonely, and things have been improving ever since! My limping SF is still limping, but significantly less than a few days ago. She's been drinking, eating, running around and acting just like all the other little crazies

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Thank you @Lady of McCamley and @Eggcessive for your help last week! I wanted to give an update on my SF chick. I kept her and another small chick in a separate brooder overnight, took everyone off of Corid and put them all on Chick Boost. I put the SF and the other little chick back with the other chicks the next afternoon because they were acting pretty sad and lonely, and things have been improving ever since! My limping SF is still limping, but significantly less than a few days ago. She's been drinking, eating, running around and acting just like all the other little crazies

I'm so glad things are looking up. Keeping my fingers crossed that it will keep improving.

Use the Chick Boost for at least a week, with 2 weeks likely best.

Good luck
LofMc

 

[Lady of McCamley]

At recommended dose it won't hurt to keep them on it, but at some point they shouldn't need it.

I'd take them off and see how it goes saving the rest for reapplication should any signs raise again.

Just be sure to have them on well balanced chick start feed without amprolium at this point since you likely over dosed that.

You should also introduce a clump of your soil to begin to acclimate them to your soil coccidia. You don't want an actual problem with that once you put them in the coop.

Chances are if your coop is newer with ground that hasn't had poultry a lot, and it is well drained soil, you won't have any problems.

LofMc

 

[Lady of McCamley]

What if they have probiotics along with vitamins and electrolytes in they're water? I have a 1 week old chick that has been limping for about 3 - 4 days. I have separated her as she was getting trampled and was not getting to eat or drink like she needed due to being picked on by the others

The question is absorption of vitamin b. Amprolium prevents absorption which is what kills the coccidia. Malnutrition from lack of b vitamins.

Feeding medicated chick feed or Corid with vitamins, specifically b, is contraindicated to rid coccidia as they would be getting b vitamins.

So it is a best guess if you get enough Amprolium to build immunity without depleting the chick, or you support the chick without supporting coccidia.

I simply note my chicks and don't give medication unless there are signs I should.

It is a bit tricky if you are fighting coccidiosis. You definitely have to treat the chick then support after treatment.

For signs of b depletion, supplement b without medicated feed so you get the b into the chick.

 

[Lisa3315]

She might not be getting enough of the Corid water. Are you certain the chick that died had coccidiosis? You could give her undiltuted Corid 0.1 ml twice daily. Do you see any curling under of her toes on the leg she is limping? Could you try and get a clear picture of her legs from the front or back straight on?

I didn't have the chick who died tested for coccidiosis, and to be honest, I was pretty frantic when I noticed that the chick was sick on Monday so I kind of jumped to the conclusion that it had coccidiosis. It was very lethargic, droopy wings, mucus-y poop/diarrhea, wasn't eating or drinking, and I wasn't able to get it to keep down much Corid water.

I didn't notice that she was curling her toes, but I can check in a little bit and I'll take a picture. She's sleeping right now, so once she wakes back up and take some photos.