Livestock Guard Dogs -- UPDATE: puppy home! (pics)

[mainchick]

just a question.....why buy a dog from a breeder? Why not SAVE a dog from a shelter? The Marin shelter is awesome and will guide towards more herding type breeds. My boy is a shelter rescue, he has some sort of shepherd and some thing else mixed in and he was going to be killed when I adopted him. $90 bucks. Neutered, shots, deworm, microchippped, flea control. CAN'T BET THE PRICE! PLUS YOU ARE SAVING A LIFE. I call it karma. Save an animal, something good will come of it. My dog is EXCELLENT at watching the stock, he is great with kids and animals of all kinds, he sheepherds and he is very' gorgeous!! i got him at about 8-10 months old. And I don't regret it. Check out this boy!!

 

[Beekissed]

That is a beautiful dog!!!

I agree with the why? of the purchasing of dogs. There are scads of LGD rescue sites with puppies and they will even ship them to you across country!

I have a rescued GP/Lab girl that looks mostly GP. She is the best family dog that anyone could ever ask for....a calm, loyal, sweet, laid back, furry love junky! She is also a fierce protector of the chickens, kittens, and the yard. Good with all livestock.

I have a Lab/BC mix, a pup still, that is also sort of a rescued mutt. He possesses all the traits of my other dog, except he is wound tight for energy...like the BCs! Hardly ever barks, but if he does its just a few warning barks...and you better go check cause its something major! Quiet and lethal hunter, trained to the chickens in about 20 min. total training time, intelligent, sweet and an overall great dog. Good with all livestock, inquisitive, and obedient to commands.

Rescued mutts are wonderful and cheap! And they need a home so badly and are so starved for affection that it gives you a good feeling taking them home!

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

just a question.....why buy a dog from a breeder?

It all comes down to what you really want and need.

If you just want a "pet" or a "yard dog", shelter dogs are wonderful.

If you want a REAL LGD from proven working stock, it's better to get one from a breeder who actually WORKs their dogs.

Most all dogs are territorial enough to bark at things they arent familiar with, but that doesnt mean they are "LGD's".

Another reason breeders are needed is to simply keep the breeds in existence. Shortly after WWII, there were only 50 Kuvasz left in the entire world. Thanks to dedicated breeders, they are still here.

Everyone here has their favorite chicken breeds, and very few would be happy if all they could get was mixed breeds of unknown origin.
Think about all the heritage breeds of birds that simply wouldnt be here if not for breeders making the effort to keep the genetics pure.

What if the question were "Why buy from a hatchery when the farm down the road has a yard full of chickens they will give away"?

The answer is still the same. You buy from breeders so you KNOW what youre getting

I've gotten LOTS of great animals from shelters, but there are times that a good breeder is the best source.​

 

[Beekissed]

Good point!

I agree with that, to be sure! Breeders are necessary for working and hunting dogs. And there will always be a market for good breed characteristics.


If I had a large livestock operation, I, too, would want a proven breed characteristic for my working dogs. Too much at stake to leave it to chance.

But......I think that mutts can be "real" LGDs if the training time is put in, or if some of their breeding is from working stock. Don't dismiss the hybrid vigor and willingness to work of a mutt dog...some of the best working dogs I've seen are crossbred.

Mine don't just bark at intruders, they go into lethal action when necessary and its a good feeling knowing they will. I've seen my GP mix actually jump into the air after a low flying hawk! My BC cross kills coons that come in the yard~ like eating candy. These aren't merely yard dogs or pets, they live outdoors, right next to the coop. I don't have any trouble from the packs of coyotes and numerous black bears in this area.

You make a great point for pure breds and I would have to agree with you. The puppy mills that make the news give all breeders a bad name and I think it sometimes makes us suspicious of "breeders". Good breeders definitely have their value in the big picture.

But...give the shelter dog his due...some of them come from working dog genetics and can perform as well or better than pedigreed dogs.

I had a shelter Lab, my first dog, that could work cattle quietly and calmly, hunt any animal you put him on, tracked game that had been shot, a courageous fighter and protector of livestock in his care..even down to the baby rabbits that someone let out, and was the most obedient animal I've ever seen. Friendly to all humans and other animals that weren't a threat, and extremely loving and loyal.....and he came from the shelter at 4 years of age~fully trained to do all these things. Sometimes you just get lucky!

 

[farmergal]

mainchick -- I thought long and hard about whether to buy from a breeder or get a dog from a shelter. And I looked on petfinder.com, visited different shelters in my county, and to be honest just couldn't find a dog that I could trust around chickens. This dog WILL share a yard with 40 birds, so I had a few requirements:
*puppy, so it could be socialized with the chickens early on in life
*shepherd of some kind (border collie or aussie) so it would be predisposed to protect poultry.
And I would prefer a dog that I knew had come from a ranch or working situation... but of course most shelter dogs don't have any history with them.

I couldn't find ANY dog that fit those two requirements. Most of the dogs in our shelters are mixed with pit bull -- dogs that would have a higher prey drive. There was one beautiful Aussie boy, but he was a year and a half old and so full of energy that I didn't think I could trust him around chickens -- let alone control him long enough to teach him. Some people suggested that I could "try" dogs out with the chickens and then return the dog if it didn't work... some labs are okay but not all... but I honestly don't have the heart to take a dog out of a shelter and then put him/her back in it! And if the dog killed one of my chickens I'd be devastated. I already lost 23 chickens to a fox in one awful night... I couldn't take another.

Anyway, not to spark a philosophical debate on breeders versus shelters, but this breeder has been WONDERFUL. She has answered a bajillion questions and is really committed to getting the right pup personality with the right person. So... that's how I made my decision. Her dogs all work livestock, so they're not just pretty, they're functional too.

ETA: beautiful pic of the dog! and beekissed, it's great to hear your happy ending too.

 

[Beekissed]

Not to stir the pot or anything, but I have a valid question.

If this dog turns out to not be what you wanted...say it kills birds or lets other animals kill them....what will you do then? Can't take it back or rehome to another working farm....maybe as a pet to a family that doesn't have livestock? Or will it be too hard to part with after all the time spent raising him?

That would be my biggest worry if I had spent a great deal of money on a dog....what if they didn't breed true? I know your chances are greater for a good dog from proven bloodlines....but, what if? Will the breeder refund your money and take the dog back or are you stuck with starting over and out a good deal of money?

 

[greathorse]

I hope you will be very happy with your Aussie. I took in an 18 month old Aussie about 6 months ago. This is a beautiful well bred aussie, and pure city slicker. She had no idea what to do on my acearage. she did have some manners with respect to voice recall etc. but not much.

When I went to feed or mess with the chickens I aways kept her on leash and took her right into the pen. Only once or twice did she show an interest in chasing and I was able to correct her immediately. For the last couple of months it seems to have occured to her that her real job is to take care of the chicken area and she watches it night and day. She does bark a few times every night,but I think she has a legitimate something to bark at.

She still barks at my horses and tries to chase them but that is her only vice. I trust her to stay with my chickens when I leave and they are out roaming. She has turned out to be an awesome guardian dog.

She did not come from a shelter but was the product of a divorce and they needed someone to take her.

I have a freind that tried three different shelter dogs and each of them had a vice that was just not going to go away and had to return them.

choose the dog you like shelter or no and enjoy it. Aussies have great potential as LGD's and you will of course not know until you are into it for a while.

Good luck

 

[Rosalind]

Re: Why not get a shelter dog?

Yeah, I tried that. Breed rescues, as a rule, do not want their rescue dogs going to be "working dogs," even if the work they are going to do is work that the breed was specifically bred for. They imagine that working dogs == dog that is left out in the yard all the time, never played with, rarely fed, never petted, neglected when it's not working, etc. Don't ask me why they think that, I have no idea. They will not let you use one of their dogs as a working dog, no matter how light the chore. Heaven help you if you want the dog to fetch your slippers in the morning, that's too much "work." Seriously, the last time I tried to look for a shelter dog, I was told that the local Saint Bernard rescue does not allow their dogs to do draft or rescue work--even if only training to get a DD or TD title! I pointed out that training a neurotic, bored dog to do meaningful work often cures the neurotic and destructive behavior, to no avail.

Some rescues have a laundry list of requirements that they insist must be met, to the point of silliness. Our local GSD rescue requires that yards be fully fenced right up to the house. Since our setup is such that the fenced areas are sectioned off and the dogs have to stay leashed until they are put into one of the fenced-off sections (each section has its own outbuilding for shelter), our application got rejected. Because you know, it's better for a dog to be euthanized than to have to stay on a leash for a five-minute walk across the yard.

Good breeders will always retain right of first refusal and take the dog back at any age. The breeders I got my dogs from were very clear on that point and often check in to make sure things are going well and follow up on their puppies.

 

[Beekissed]

Well, that's good to know! I know what you mean about the requirements....they wanted me to have a 6 ft. chain link around my entire property before they would even consider letting me have an Anatolian...and it couldn't be used as a farm dog!

My rescues didn't come directly from a shelter...two of them came from folks who had gotten them from a shelter and no longer wanted to care for them~then there was me, glad to have them. One came from a farm dog who was allowed to breed indiscriminantly and had 14 pups she was too old to feed....so they were boney, wormy and unwanted~and free!

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

Aussies have great potential as LGD's

You can call an Aussie an "LGD", but that wont change the fact that Aussies are HERDING DOGS, and are not Guardians at all

Herding dogs should NEVER be left in with the other animals all the time, since they would drive them crazy by constantly trying to HERD them.
A TRUE LGD's only purpose should be to spend that vast majority or it's time with it's flock or herd as a protector.

The term LGD is often misused to describe ANY dog thats around other animals, but reality is, properly used, it should only refer to specific breeds that have been developed for that purpose.

Most of the TRUE LGD breeds can be traced back hundreds if not THOUSANDS of years, and do their jobs by instinct with almost no training at all.

REAL LGD's:

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/maremmasheepdog.htm

http://www.bountifulfarm.com/lgd_seminar.htm

http://www.lgd.org/


HERDING DOGS:
http://www.herdingontheweb.com/dogs.htm​