LOS ANGELES county CA under bird quarantine :(

[Animalfisherwoman]

In Ventura County, they nipped it in the bud and that appears to be the only place there has been no recurrence, with the exception of the isolated cases in Arizona, Utah, and the one infected rooster up in N. CA. The further outbreaks in June in multiple areas are particularly alarming. They started too late to contain this. And the untrained people they hired are probably spreading it.

Today, cdfa told two households in Romoland (close to Norco) under kill order that they would now be quarantine and test only. And that's great...but see, CDFA has been going through that area for a couple weeks now, black bags of decomposing chickens taken to the next kill site, going to the dump outside the kill zone and dumping the bags, tromping between properties and public areas in the same booties, ripped biosuits. I hope for these birds that got a reprieve--their biosecurity is excellent. They carried their birds to the fence line where they were tested. The glove change was observed. Hopefully these birds are ok.

 

[Animalfisherwoman]

Do you know if these new outbreaks are birds testing positive for NCD or dying from same?

They're detected positives. No one knows on the "backyard" level whether those positives were from dead/sick birds called in on sick bird, or post-mortem detected from killed birds (they haven't swabbed at every site) or premortem tests. Commercial facilities require regular vnd testing and kills happen only when the results are positive, however.

 

[HenOnAJuneBug]

They're detected positives. No one knows on the "backyard" level whether those positives were from dead/sick birds called in on sick bird, or post-mortem detected from killed birds (they haven't swabbed at every site) or premortem tests. Commercial facilities require regular vnd testing and kills happen only when the results are positive, however.

So these "outbreaks" really could be the result of increased surveillance, rather than some virulent boogey-man virus. In other words, if those birds that tested positive hadn't been killed, would they have died of NCD?

 

[Animalfisherwoman]

So these "outbreaks" really could be the result of increased surveillance, rather than some virulent boogey-man virus. In other words, if those birds that tested positive hadn't been killed, would they have died of NCD?

There are reports that the Newcastle's vaccinations on the market can cause false positives. This would be expected in fact if they were using an antibody test that encompassed the same antibodies that the body would be triggered into making by the vaccine. Same with measles vaccines in humans--an antibody test will show you are positive and you should be for life. They would need to use a ab/ag test or a pcr test for antigen (virus or viral particulates) that would have to be specific to CA2018 to eliminate this possibility. I've found no research indicating that they are or aren't doing that.

Beyond the false positive question, the death rate in birds who contract VND is at least 70 percent based on USDA's 12/2018 analysis. A UC Davis vet suggested that some chickens might be asymptomatic carriers (meaning shedding survivors or shedding chickens who never got sick) for several months. Once again, I've gone through the USDA/CDFA data online and have seen nothing else about carrier status in chickens, unlike the US1996 strain that was conclusively proven to show asymptomatic Amazon parrots could shed for over a year.

So, tl;dr, if a bird tests positive--particularly an unvaccinated bird--assumptions among everyone is that the bird has contracted CA2018, that it will spread to the rest of the flock, and the whole flock needs to be euthanized. If that doesn't happen, more than 2 in 3 birds will die anyway.

 

[Animalfisherwoman]

So these "outbreaks" really could be the result of increased surveillance, rather than some virulent boogey-man virus. In other words, if those birds that tested positive hadn't been killed, would they have died of NCD?

As to the "outbreaks" being tied to the surveillance efforts, I can see how people think that. The maps CDFA is releasing to the public have not correlated to the USDA tables that in themselves only show detections by county. There appears to be some correlation with the depopulation efforts and even speculation that what we're seeing are those and not known positives. I can't say on this, but I absolutely believe that the laxity in biosecurity i have seen could be spreading this. For crying out loud, the workers are going house to house with decomposing leaking chickens in regular black garbage bags in open flatbed trucks, all of which get disposed of like regular refuse at the dump.

 

[BreanneRN]

I am really not liking what I am seeing in the high desert where Victorville and Hesperia are now spreading towards Palmdale and Lancaster.

 

[HenOnAJuneBug]

more than 2 in 3 birds will die anyway.

Where has that been observed? Doesn't seem like they let backyard chickens stay alive long enough to be able to make that claim about that population.

 

[Brahma Chicken5000]

The LA Times yesterday put SOB Save our Birds on its front page. An archive of the article is available here: http://archive.is/HwJfz

The SOB attorney has moved for immediate discovery (written depositions) from California head vet Annette Jones and CDFA. The court date is Monday. The legal filing is here: http://www.chadmorgan.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/SOB-Ex-Parte-App-re-Discovery.pdf

Annette Jones was also revealed to be co-owner of an egg and poultry farm outside of Davis, CA that supplies restaurants in the metro Sacramento area. She and her husband applied for and received a grant to buy a livestock dog for their 2,500 hens. Their Website has been archived here:
http://archive.is/CmrPu?fbclid=IwAR1bKRSbWpOrp5qDFD-e0aNCpKJqpefuEYAG9BH1Ja1DhOAK1QcuhvS24tY

http://archive.is/dakh7?fbclid=IwAR3t8GOfrcq8U3ipxq92Q_YKVyrd90D6KhzE8j7WkwqVMmBSXcHs9R77FVQ

Well it’s quite obvious that Annette Jones has ulterior motives.

No one is arguing with this sentiment. I love my chickens like I love my dog like I love my cats. Would we even have this conversation if folx's dogs were being forcibly euthanized? Compassion. Empathy. I have no doubt you are a fantastic chicken mama. That is very clear based on your words. But honoring "human condition" IMO means understanding others' feelings and communication styles rather than condemning them for doing what they feel is right. Do I agree that euthanasia is a necessary step? From all I've read, yes. But I will not judge others nor dismiss the suffering of those whose shoes I've not occupied.

Perhaps questioning the procedures and requiring better communication is for the greater good. Maybe that is the responsible thing to do. Perhaps we should consider that possibility.

If it was dogs or cats that were being euthanized like the chickens in California people would be up in arms. But since it’s chickens most people couldn’t care less. It’s speciesism plain and simple.

 

[Animalfisherwoman]

SOB's lawyer had his motion for early discovery denied today. That said, the attorney noted that the judge thought the application overbroad and strongly recommended that he and the CDFA attorneys work together for a solution. If that does not happen, the sob attorney plans to file another motion with a narrower scope next week.

The lawyer's press release is available here: http://www.chadmorgan.com/update-on...oByJT_1rzTPZRgt_nmbnVjSnkTCgtNaMf7LVtpTiZ8rJM

 

[Animalfisherwoman]

Where has that been observed? Doesn't seem like they let backyard chickens stay alive long enough to be able to make that claim about that population.

I quoted their number...but see what I mean? The more you look into this, the more inconsistencies you find. Especially when you're doing something like a mass depopulation, specifics and consistency are key rather than telling people different things, acting in inconsistent ways, and then telling them to go along because, well, they said so.