Marans - SOP discussion thread

[Ripster]

To my knowledge there are no other breeds/varieties that specifically specify the color of ear tuft feathers. When looking at images in the standard, the ear tuft feathers following the coloring of the head and neck.

 

[Ripster]

Sorry let me rephrase my last sentence for clarity.

"When looking at images in the standard, the ear tuft feathers follow the coloring of the head and neck feathers."

Sorry, woke up too early this morning and I'm tired already.

 

[snowbird]

Several year ago I stated that the Ear Tufts should be the same color as the Hackle and this fact has not changed as of this date.

I also stated that the wing, Tail and undercolor White could be corrected with culling.

I also stated that the genetic Formulas were useless when dealing with Marans because they were so crossed up from the beginning.

I have also stated that the white Shanks and feet were a sign of wheaten influence.

I have also stated that the overmelanized females will produce as many young with good Copper as any others as long as the correct male is used.

I have been involved with Poultry all my life and have also kept records of all matings for over 60 years.

When breeding the BC for the Copper color it is very important to use a male with the proper Copper Ear Tufts.

There is no such thing as a Ear Covert.

Will not comment any more. Don Lee

 

[marquisella]

Several year ago I stated that the Ear Tufts should be the same color as the Hackle and this fact has not changed as of this date.

I also stated that the wing, Tail and undercolor White could be corrected with culling.

I also stated that the genetic Formulas were useless when dealing with Marans because they were so crossed up from the beginning.

I have also stated that the white Shanks and feet were a sign of wheaten influence.

I have also stated that the overmelanized females will produce as many young with good Copper as any others as long as the correct male is used.

I have been involved with Poultry all my life and have also kept records of all matings for over 60 years.

When breeding the BC for the Copper color it is very important to use a male with the proper Copper Ear Tufts.

There is no such thing as a Ear Covert.

Will not comment any more. Don Lee

 

[Wynette]

Don, just because YOU say it doens't mean it's a fact. You state yourself that they are genetically mixed, so your 60 years of breeding experience likely doens't help you much in the case of Marans, unfortunately.

There are other folks who have also been breeding these birds for many, many years who also have good experience & good information to share.

I don't know that anyone has disputed what you state. Ear covers (yes, it's a word) should be hackle color- agreed. White underfluff & white tail/wing feathers should be culled for - agreed.

I'm very happy you are so passionate about this breed - the more folks who are, the more quickly we will move it forward.

 

[Wynette]

Covert feather

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Underwing of Orange-headed Thrush, Zoothera citrina cyanotus
A covert feather or tectrix on a bird is one of a set of feathers, called coverts (or tectrices), which as the name implies, cover other feathers. The coverts help to smooth airflow over the wings and tail.
Contents

[hide]

• 1 Ear coverts
• 2 Tail coverts
• 3 Wing coverts
• 4 References

Ear coverts[edit]

The ear coverts are small feathers behind the bird's eye which cover the ear opening (the ear of a bird has no external features)
Tail coverts[edit]


A rear view of an Indian Peacock's true tail and elongated uppertail covert feathers
The uppertail and undertail coverts cover the base of the tail feathers above and below. Sometimes these coverts are more specialised. The "tail" of a peacock is actually very elongated uppertail coverts.
Wing coverts[edit]


Upperwing of Orange-headed Thrush
The upperwing coverts fall into two groups: those on the inner wing, which overlay the secondary flight feathers, known as the secondary coverts, and those on the outerwing, which overlay the primary flight feathers, the primary coverts. Within each group, the feathers form a number of rows. The feathers of the outermost, largest, row are termed greater (primary-/secondary-) coverts; those in the next row are the median (primary-/secondary-) coverts, and any remaining rows are termed lesser (primary-/secondary-) coverts. The underwing has corresponding sets of coverts (the names upperwing coverts and underwing coverts are used to distinguish the corresponding sets). In addition the front edge of the wing is covered with a group of feathers called the marginal coverts. Within each group of wing coverts, the rows of feathers overlap each other like roof tiles (the greater coverts are overlain by the median coverts, which in turn are overlain by the outermost row of lesser coverts, and so on).

 

[maryhysong]

OK, here are a couple of really ugly pullets. Will be one year in Dec. I figure if I show these maybe it will help someone else to know what their birds shouldn't look like.

band; green97 Related to the TX boy I showed before, way to dark, just a few flecks of copper on the neck, ugly comb, black ears, dark eye, black beak. A little small, could have a rounder chest but not too bad. I think her tail angle is OK. Fully feathered down the outside toe. Not the best time to take a pic she's still molting. Lays about a 3 with some speckles.


Red 65 is a cull. Normally holds her tail straight up 90 degrees. When she does that she looks like a V. Very pinched in the tail, very front heavy. She does have some copper, but still a dark eye, black ear, black beak. And clean legs. Going to swim with dumplings soon. She is also the smallest of them all. Related to the flaming orange boys I posted last spring on the BCM thread. As far as I can tell I don't think she has ever laid an egg.


Red 59 is possibly the best of the bunch, she is still a little too dark, black ear, beak, her eye is dark but not as bad as the others.. A little narrow at the hip but not too bad. She has some small feather stubs down the outside of the shank but no real feathering. I think her tail angle may be a little high. I think she might be laying a solid #4 egg. (I might get another pen finished this weekend so I can separate her and know for sure)


So tell me what I've missed on these?

 

[DMRippy]

OK, here are a couple of really ugly pullets. Will be one year in Dec. I figure if I show these maybe it will help someone else to know what their birds shouldn't look like.

band; green97 Related to the TX boy I showed before, way to dark, just a few flecks of copper on the neck, ugly comb, black ears, dark eye, black beak. A little small, could have a rounder chest but not too bad. I think her tail angle is OK. Fully feathered down the outside toe. Not the best time to take a pic she's still molting. Lays about a 3 with some speckles.

IF she does not have it she looks like she has split wing a DQ


Red 65 is a cull. Normally holds her tail straight up 90 degrees. When she does that she looks like a V. Very pinched in the tail, very front heavy. She does have some copper, but still a dark eye, black ear, black beak. And clean legs. Going to swim with dumplings soon. She is also the smallest of them all. Related to the flaming orange boys I posted last spring on the BCM thread. As far as I can tell I don't think she has ever laid an egg.

The BROWN Under Fluff is also a BAD THING in Marans. She has that GYPSY look we don't want. She is not balanced either..... to much on the front half with her.


Red 59 is possibly the best of the bunch, she is still a little too dark, black ear, beak, her eye is dark but not as bad as the others.. A little narrow at the hip but not too bad. She has some small feather stubs down the outside of the shank but no real feathering. I think her tail angle may be a little high. I think she might be laying a solid #4 egg. (I might get another pen finished this weekend so I can separate her and know for sure)

That U shape is not right her tail is a little too high, but don't cull her just for egg color. Her eyes are OK,,,that would not be a cull point for me with her. She is too dark, but most pullets are. If you pair her right you can FIX some of her issues.


So tell me what I've missed on these?

 

[math ace]

I agree with DMRippy.... The third bird is the best bird and a keeper that you could work with.
Pair her with a big male because she looks a little on the small side, but that could be the photo...
Pair her with a male with the lowest tail angle because of that high tail.
Pair her with a long back male. A lot of times when I see that high tail it is tied to a short backed bird.
Use a male with correct leg feathering and you will produce some chicks with nice leg feathering too.

As far as the coppering goes, pair her with an averaged coppered male and you should be fine. I found with my birds that the copper really shows up after a couple of generations of consistent breeding to males with good coppering. Last year, all my females lacked coppering. I picked the best type and just kept at it. This year, I am seeing a lot more copper showing up on the ladies.

 

[math ace]

green97




Red 59 is possibly the best of the bunch,


So tell me what I've missed on these?

Maryhysong..... I hope it is OK to use your birds for a question. If not - pm me and I will delete my question....

BUMS.... I want to talk about BUMS.....

I have noticed with my hens (all breeds) that when they have a bum like the first hen, they end up with egg laying issues.
Over time, they develop the saggy diaper look and end up egg impacted or lay double yolkers, or something else..

The second hen has a nice looking bum, that does not indicate any laying issues to me.

Am I crazy?

What causes the differences in the Bums?

Do they just look different due to the tightness of the fluff or is there really a structure difference in these two bums?