Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[Debbi]

Quote:
Good luck. I've seen it in Cuckoos too! Best I can tell you is to close your flock, and single mate. If you have one gened birds within your flock, and mate them to another one gened bird, you WILL see Carnations! Be sure to check the combs of all your hens very carefully! This has passed the barriers of lines and color varieties!! CHECK ALL BIRDS, ALL COLORS, ALL SEXES!!!! Coming from "top lines" means NOTHING!!!

 

[Cadeau]

ok this calls for a lesson from the Comb Cop (if she's available!)

I understand about sprigs (I think?)

2 recessive genes = sprigs

1 recessive gene - carrier of sprigs



So = is carnation the greatest expression of "sprigs"??

Sort of like color? you need the perfect combination of dark/light to get the perfect coloring, but there are lots of other combinations (too light to too dark) out there?

 

[SD_Paulo]

Quote:
If it clearly shows the fault then I don't think it will matter that it is a Cuckoo... Go ahead and post it

Paulo ~ If the bird(s) in question are approaching a molt, I would not worry too much. Are the white feathers white down to the skin? Or are they white in the middle of the feather, like someone painted it in there? Mark the feather with a Red/orange marker, and see if they don't molt the feather out in about 2 weeks or so. I'm thinking a lot of good roos are being lost to people panicing at the sight of these white sickle feathers!! If they are NOT white at the skinline, they will almost always molt out! Just what I've seen here, but it happens all the time! Also, my roos tend to molt in bits and pieces, not all at once like my hens do. Roos need more time to mature, and color up and bulk out! Up to 2 years!! Don't let a white feather deter you, unless it does not molt out in a few weeks, or goes to the skin and has white in the shaft! JMO!!!!!

Debbi- thanks for the words of encouragement but it appears that his shaft "feathers" are becoming MORE white. I am a bit bummed because he is a good looking bird apart from the glaring white tail feathers. Anyways, I will try and take a photo on monday for you guys and you guys can tell me what you think.

 

[Debbi]

Quote:
Ok, I'm NOT a genetics pro or even a seasoned amature by any means! Please understand, I am only passing on what I see here in my backyard, first hand!

I do believe it takes TWO genes to express (show ) the Carnation comb. If two birds that carry the one gene are bred together, you WILL get some carnations. If one bird expresses (actually shows the comb), the comb and you breed it to a non-carrier, you WILL get Carnation combs, as the two genes are already present in the bird that expresses it! The Carnation comb seems to be dominant over the Single comb; just my observation. The problem lies when you have birds that carry only one gene for the comb, and have not come across a mating of another carrier. Once you do, you will see a carnation appear. If you breed a carrier to a carrier (two genes now pairing up), you WILL have Carnation combs appearing!!!! I have written this to the death on back posts, and other threads. For more info, go back to page 2500 on this thread for pics, and maybe before that for explanation. I am tired...

 

[Lotsapaints]

carnation isn't a sprig though it looks like one sorta almost looks like a pea comb when they are young but not the total comb if that makes sense...then I had a rooster who almost had a perfect crown by getting them you learn what they look like young. Some breeder or breeders must have used a Penedesenca to help with egg color I guess who knows why but that gene is floating around in many flocks and doesn't show until you have crossed them back. Here is a link to see what the combs look like http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGP/Penes/BRKPenes.html

 

[Debbi]

Quote:
Paulo ~ If the bird(s) in question are approaching a molt, I would not worry too much. Are the white feathers white down to the skin? Or are they white in the middle of the feather, like someone painted it in there? Mark the feather with a Red/orange marker, and see if they don't molt the feather out in about 2 weeks or so. I'm thinking a lot of good roos are being lost to people panicing at the sight of these white sickle feathers!! If they are NOT white at the skinline, they will almost always molt out! Just what I've seen here, but it happens all the time! Also, my roos tend to molt in bits and pieces, not all at once like my hens do. Roos need more time to mature, and color up and bulk out! Up to 2 years!! Don't let a white feather deter you, unless it does not molt out in a few weeks, or goes to the skin and has white in the shaft! JMO!!!!!

Debbi- thanks for the words of encouragement but it appears that his shaft "feathers" are becoming MORE white. I am a bit bummed because he is a good looking bird apart from the glaring white tail feathers. Anyways, I will try and take a photo on monday for you guys and you guys can tell me what you think.

Before you send this guy to freezer camp, let me ask you this.

Have you held the bird and checked the feather(s) in question down to the skin? Are they white as they come out of the skin? Or are they white in the middle of the feather??

How old is the bird? I have seen this happen in birds as young as 6 months, and in birds over a year old. These birds, mostly the roos, don't FULLY mature until about 18 months to two years of age! If we are discarding young roos, we may never know what potential they may have! Case in point; some of my older cockerels now 9 months old, are just now starting to come on in growth, color, and molt. Some of my roos are older, and are still growing and filling out! Lucky for me, I've been having a hard time getting "rid" of excess roos here, because in the last couple of months, I have seen some real growth of body and improvement! Post a pic of your guy. Mark his white feather with a red/orange marker, and see if he doesn't molt it out within a month, or more like 2-3 weeks.

All of my roos are now sporting a white sickle feather or two in their tails. All are also due to molt, so I am not worried at all. They seem to just pop up over night, but within 3 week time period, they are gone. Funny thing is, none of the hens/pullets that are hatchmates to these roos/cockerels, have any white feathers what so ever.

All I can say is, give the boys' more time!

 

[Cadeau]

Thanks! I'll go back, debbi!

Lotsapaints- so a sprig is from a different gene?
Thanks for the link! Going there now!

MTA: it does look like sprigs and carnations are related somehow, but what do I know.
I don't think that carnation comb is pretty at all...looks like a comb gone wild!


Need to get a genetics book-can anyone make a recommendation??

 

[Debbi]

Quote:
Pullleeeze! I have Carnations that would make the Penes shrink with envy!

While my stupid dial-up won't let all the pics on the Feather Site load, here is one of the "double dosed" carantions in my backyard! Tell me this isn't a problem of major proportions in this breed!! If this pic isn't the one, go back to page 2500 on this thread to see the "rest of the story".

This comb as of the date, hadn't even really popped out yet!

 

[Lotsapaints]

Debbi at least on this board we tell it like it is...so many people just keep right on breeding these things because people will pay for the eggs it's so sad. Now that there are standards it might help but like many I'm not wanting to sell much of anything until I know for sure what is lurking in the background. I tell them they are my project because it's a crapshot who knows what might show up....I see what can happen thanks to Randy and Kim and they were not trying to pull a fast one and I'm sure some of the people selling the "tainted ones" didn't know either

 

[SD_Paulo]

Quote:
Debbi- thanks for the words of encouragement but it appears that his shaft "feathers" are becoming MORE white. I am a bit bummed because he is a good looking bird apart from the glaring white tail feathers. Anyways, I will try and take a photo on monday for you guys and you guys can tell me what you think.

Before you send this guy to freezer camp, let me ask you this.

Have you held the bird and checked the feather(s) in question down to the skin? Are they white as they come out of the skin? Or are they white in the middle of the feather??

How old is the bird? I have seen this happen in birds as young as 6 months, and in birds over a year old. These birds, mostly the roos, don't FULLY mature until about 18 months to two years of age! If we are discarding young roos, we may never know what potential they may have! Case in point; some of my older cockerels now 9 months old, are just now starting to come on in growth, color, and molt. Some of my roos are older, and are still growing and filling out! Lucky for me, I've been having a hard time getting "rid" of excess roos here, because in the last couple of months, I have seen some real growth of body and improvement! Post a pic of your guy. Mark his white feather with a red/orange marker, and see if he doesn't molt it out within a month, or more like 2-3 weeks.

All of my roos are now sporting a white sickle feather or two in their tails. All are also due to molt, so I am not worried at all. They seem to just pop up over night, but within 3 week time period, they are gone. Funny thing is, none of the hens/pullets that are hatchmates to these roos/cockerels, have any white feathers what so ever.

All I can say is, give the boys' more time!

10-4. I will post pictures for advise.