Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[ruth]

Does any one use dogs to help with fox/coyote problems? Fox problems, and coyote problems can often be controlled by using domestic dogs. Coyotes especially don't cross onto the territory of a domestic dog. Not a perfect system depending on the coyote but liberal use of walking a pet dog along the perimeter can be helpful. Pee, pee, pee along a fenceline.

Or you can borrow my son, who with bat in hand chased a coyote with a favorite chicken in mouth. (Coyote clearly was not going to stop and argue as he already had his prize. I did need to council my son on adult duties v children duties.) Or my DH who chased a fox who had scooted under the barrier fence only to exit at high speed up and over the 5 ft fence. Wish I had been there for that one. Fox has not been back.

I have an assortment of dogs. As of this morning #10 (another stray) made her appearance. People seem to love to dump dogs around our farm and they eventually find their way here and I have to medicate; spay/neuter; and train them not to kill any of the free roaming animals that share this farm. Except for my breeder birds which I rotate in/out of breeder pens, all other animals including ducks, geese, chickens, goats, peacocks - all roam free. Most of the birds sleep on the ground, in bushes, in trees, on fences and never go in the coops. Many also sleep in the dog beds, under the carports or on the porches with the dogs. I've found that I can train just about any dog to not only leave them alone but to help protect them. My best predator-patrol dogs are my own personal dogs - the two Great Pyrenees and the two German Shepherds - each serving different functions. My GPs are great for sleeping with the herd of horses and roaming the property at night and they can be heard nearly in the next county chasing something off if they picked up its scent. My GSDs won't leave the perimeter of the farm but will also take off barking at anything they scent/hear. One GSD watches the skies constantly and barks and chases off hawks (or even buzzards) which is great for all the free roaming baby chicks that hens hatch in the barn. The other GSD works the coop - when birds start returning to the coop at night she breaks up any roo fights and if she hears a hen scream she goes running and will pull the roos off a hen and sit with the hen between her legs. She follows baby chicks around and watches after them. The strays while not overly loving toward the farm animals don't bother them at all and help in that they also will take off and/or bark if they pick up on something. So basically all the dogs know this is their home and everything on it is "family" and they all do their part to keep everyone safe. We also have three cats and they don't bother anything either, not even baby chicks. One cat used to love to sleep in the nest boxes. I was just walking #10 this morning and introducing her to everything on the farm and letting her know the ground rules right away - "Get along or get along"

 

[Wynette]

Geebsie, wish you'd hang out more here...you have SO much in that gray matter that you can share with us all!

 

[Debbi]

Monique~

I personally prefer the lightly feathered shanks and no feathers on the outer toe and used to breed for no feathers on the outer toe.....I am still breeding for lightly feathered shanks (lightly to me means, one nice neat row of nicely developed feathers down the outside of the shank, not the street sweeper look) but have recently intergrated birds that have a couple feathers on the outer toe into the program because that is what the SOP calls for, I just will not be breeding for heavily feathered shanks, though I do keep some birds with heavy feathered shanks to kinda even out the balance that is produced in the offspring. If I let the feathering get too light, I start seeing more and more clean shanks or birds with sparse (sporadic) shank feathering. When I see this I cross back to a heavily feathered bird and it helps out tremendously.

I personally, prefer the street sweepers when they are young. As Monique has found out, much of the feathering disappears in time. I have birds that had nice, thick shank/toe feathering in quite a few birds, but it all but left them clean legged by about 7-8 months of age?? The two dark boys here, Clyde and Roy, are just about the only ones that have held onto the street sweeper look. It's a muddy, mucky mess here right now too Monique, but these guys have held onto their feathers for over a year now. From what I see here, I will breed the roos with the heaviest shank/toe feathering to get some on the next generation. Most of my hens have very sporadic feathering.

 

[Debbi]

I have had that Jesse line for a long time (first Wades I bought)....I have never had pene combs come up.... Other stuff.... UH OH YA... The yellow leg thing threw me... but that was a problem in that line for sure as it was in several lines early on.... It was a way in the beginning to show you really had Jesse birds... I have had big combs but not any of the pene combs... side sprigs ya.. in every breed with single combs you have that as a possible fault...There are still a couple of closed Jesse flocks out there... I will ask around...

Debbi... You may ask yourself why ppl don't tell where they got bad stock... it isn't a secret pene society...

No one is HIDING anything...(we all secretly have penedesencas hiding in our closets...he he)

I don't have anything to hide for sure... I have hatched my share of pene combs for sure... I know why too...Unless I got the birds from point of import on a closed flock... with no other breeds in the yard... anything is possible... and still... a nieghbors bird can still visit... We DONT know as buyers what we are going to get... and also the genetics that were available... well they were mutts from the get go... We are just a few short years in and just LOOOK where we are... We have come a long way baby...

Unfortunately ppl still tried to make the wheel rounder than it was... that was the pene problem... if one dark layer is good... well lets mix the two (the thinking here)... Penes have died out.. there isn't many good ones in the US to be found... There is a reason... They are some wicked flighty things... It is pretty easy to see the influence they had... As a person who owned both Penes and Early imported marans from most points of import years ago I can tell you that the early birds are nothing like what we have today... Good and bad... Some flocks will be forever in getting rid of the carnation comb... it is prolific... Did one rooster of Jesse's have a carnation Comb influence... I really don't know... In all the hatchings I did from those eggs... and all the subsequent generations I have had from his closed flocks.. I haven't seen it. PPL Crossed them with Barnies and Wellies also

Valentine was probably the most prolific of the impact on the marans aviculture... they were one of the first to mass market marans at a price ppl could afford.. It showed up in egg color among other things.. Those were some of the first crosses I surmise... I had my share of those...all which met with a clear and definite end.. I gave some eggs away in the beginning. (who knew) fortunately the birds were so unredeaming that I doubt anyone kept em... It is easy to believe what ppl tell you when you buy em. this is truly a buyer beware.... The culling in that respect MUST be ruthless (no offense Ruth he he ) The comb isn't the worst of the offenses IMHO.. it is the attitude of the birds also.. They are rangy and the roosters aren't friendly... the eye color isn't right... dark flecks etc...It is also the genetic base. We can get hung up on the combs but there are other signs of the roosters that have gone before.... The sickle tails and rangey bodies.. that is enough to scrap heap em if you ask me.... the nice short tails and low riding bodies are more in keeping with what the breed is supposed to look like... If we keep that MEAT/EGG producer in mind we won't need to scrutinize the combs so hard as the pene culling will dissappear at a faster rate... There are breeders out there that I wouldn't take their birds even if they were free.... I think of it as poison to my flock... It all comes back to the same thing time after time...

Monique, I love Jesse's flock... nice kind birds with lots of redeeming qualities.. I will take them as I find them... If in the future I ever have a side sprig show up.. I will let you know.. as of yet I haven't... But who knows... anything can happen in chickens...

The combs argument in this group is years old... glad to see we are still kicking that dog... I sure thought it would be dead by now. Wonderful to see nothing changes around here.

Let's wage war on the flighty birds.. that is something you hear less about... Marans crawl right up in your lap and want to see whacha got... that is the mark of a good marans... If it is flighty.. eat it.. It should run to the pot... that is my official position on that matter...Well guys... Lots to do today... one of the last nice days... See ya around the cyber-farmyard...geebs has left the building

Funny, people I have talked to are hiding things left and right, especially the ones I bought the funky combed eggs from! Won't go there and bring up names. As far as the Pene blood being "flighty", the birds here with a full blown Carnation comb, are the sweetest and calmest of the bunch, other than my Presley/Jeane boys! I will have to get a good pic of my "Muttley" roo. HUGE, hideous Carnation comb, best colored bird here, sweet and gentle to the ladies and me, and a great flock protector. Nice, compact body with depth/width, low rider, really nice tail and tail set. Until you have looked at a flock of these freaky combs running around, well... On the other hand, my supposed Jesse Bryant roo, is a manfighter, and has never bred a pullet or hen! I can also see a Wheaten influence in him, and wish he would breed somebody just once! The only reason he has stayed is he is so comical to me, and he doesn't breed anything. Flighty birds sure aren't my problem here! Gees, in fact I have to shuffle in the run for fear of tripping over them, they are on me like white on rice!

 

[Debbi]

I'm joining the bad comb club!!

This is one of my Olive Eggers (with hard boiled egg on his beak) - not quite 5 weeks old. Now I have to hope it isn't my Marans boy that's throwing this.

Oh gees Barb, sorry to see that! I think I would test mate your roo before you get into any heavy production. JMO. Love the avatar, looks like a SHE to me!!

 

[Debbi]

I have an assortment of dogs. As of this morning #10 (another stray) made her appearance. People seem to love to dump dogs around our farm and they eventually find their way here and I have to medicate; spay/neuter; and train them not to kill any of the free roaming animals that share this farm. Except for my breeder birds which I rotate in/out of breeder pens, all other animals including ducks, geese, chickens, goats, peacocks - all roam free. Most of the birds sleep on the ground, in bushes, in trees, on fences and never go in the coops. Many also sleep in the dog beds, under the carports or on the porches with the dogs. I've found that I can train just about any dog to not only leave them alone but to help protect them. My best predator-patrol dogs are my own personal dogs - the two Great Pyrenees and the two German Shepherds - each serving different functions. My GPs are great for sleeping with the herd of horses and roaming the property at night and they can be heard nearly in the next county chasing something off if they picked up its scent. My GSDs won't leave the perimeter of the farm but will also take off barking at anything they scent/hear. One GSD watches the skies constantly and barks and chases off hawks (or even buzzards) which is great for all the free roaming baby chicks that hens hatch in the barn. The other GSD works the coop - when birds start returning to the coop at night she breaks up any roo fights and if she hears a hen scream she goes running and will pull the roos off a hen and sit with the hen between her legs. She follows baby chicks around and watches after them. The strays while not overly loving toward the farm animals don't bother them at all and help in that they also will take off and/or bark if they pick up on something. So basically all the dogs know this is their home and everything on it is "family" and they all do their part to keep everyone safe. We also have three cats and they don't bother anything either, not even baby chicks. One cat used to love to sleep in the nest boxes. I was just walking #10 this morning and introducing her to everything on the farm and letting her know the ground rules right away - "Get along or get along"

Ha! Sounds like my place! Two German Shepherds here too, one is getting on in years, and I hope will make it to the summer. She is eaten up with tumors, and had a stroke a while back, so she is not steady on her feet any more at 14, but insists on making the rounds with me, and is never far from my side. My male however, is a 110#, high prey drive, super force! At 10 years old, he is still a Jack Russell in a 110# body!

He also breaks up roo fights, and runs off the manfighters from me. Very good with predator patrol, and has killed several possums and coons. He is the one that alerted me of someone hiding under the shed, and he checks it out every time he goes out there. Something killed one of HIS chickens, and by gosh, if HE can't eat them, neither can you!! He is also my service dog, self trained, and understands everything I say. He will pick up and carry anything I ask him to, and hand it to me. Lawdy, I am going to miss this dog the most of any I have ever had when he goes! He is my body guard, my helper, and my bestest buddy. And all he ever asks for is his "cubes"; he LOVES ICE CUBES!!! I also have 9 cats, they protect the flock from birds of prey. They have never bothered a chicken, and hang with the free rangers all day long. Between the chooks and the cats, I have no mice, snakes, hawks, or bugs to speak of. It's a small place here, nowhere near as grand as your place Ruth (I love that house and barn!!!), but we all learn to get along...we have to!

 

[geebs]

 

[gilavina]

Ok, that makes sense! Phew! I would've thought Vicki would've mentioned that one!

Ummmmmm.....YEAH....I'd prabably be screaming about a cougar on the roof!!! hahaha

 

[Debbi]

Well Debbi I guess everything I said is a load of hooey to you... Apparently you know more than I do about these things... Sorry you have an ax to grind... hope you get over it someday... life is too short to get hung up on the small stuff.

Whoa girl! You came in here angry, and after me for something I brought to the forefront. I've been here for quite awhile now. I don't claim to know much of anything, but I DO know what I've seen and learned from here first hand! I also know what I have learned from others that have e-mailed me with the same problem! I have no axe to grind except for when it comes to denial of the problem. When I specifically ask people as to the combs of their birds, show them pics of my past experiences of results of others, and they deny ever seeing the problem in "their birds", well then, heck yes, I HAVE A PROBLEM when their eggs hatch out with these exact problems! When out of 9 orders of eggs and only 2 show no problems, the rest displayed Carnations, YES, I have a problem with that! This is a serious problem for those who would like to show their birds, or sell eggs/chicks to those who would. That was not my intention from the begininng, I sell NOTHING, so that is not my game or interest. Since the breed has become APA recognized, it would behoove everyone trying to sell chicks and hatching eggs to actually KNOW the problems with the Marans combs when it comes to DQs, wouldn't it??? I am not saying I know more than anyone in this regard, or in anything else. All I am saying is what I have had shown up here, and when I posted my concerns to the MCCUsa, I got a LOT of responses...albeit privately, some responded to the list. While I may or may not ever show a bird, I would like to think that I was breeding them to the best of my ability. So far, I can't seem to get any stock that displays these SOP qualities after a 2 year period, save for one hatch (the other being a single hatch so can't really tell from that). While I cannot say with an exact certainty the truthfullness of the lines I have bought into, I DO see a distinct pattern of a line, which I will stay away from at all cost in the future. While it may be "just a comb" to you, it is a DQ within the breed, and I will breed away from it! To me, this isn't "small stuff"; it is trying to ensure the breed isn't totally contaminated with this problem. As far as I can see, unless you have a truly pure and closed flock without ever having this problem; you WILL have this problem in the near future! Just saying...but if folks choose to ignore this, well then they can go out to their runs every morning and look at the Carnations combs too. This is all I going to say about the matter here on this thread. Evidently, the warning is being seen as coming from a "know nothing" type of person. If anyone has the problem and wants to e-mail me with their info, then fine...

 

[math ace]

Hey Lenette!
When do ya'll start your hatching season down that way? I'm thinkin I'll set my eggs Saturday or Sunday (sunday might be best with my work schedule) for my test run with the incubator. I'm excited, but nervous cause I'm hoping it won't backfire on me if the weather stays crappy for too long

Hopefully, I will finish our last coop this weekend. Then set up our breeding pens.
I have a hen who has been broody for 2 weeks now....

HATCHING .... I would be doing it already if I wasn't going to Newnan in a few more weeks

I will be setting eggs as soon as I get back....