Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[math ace]

Everyone ready for Thanksgiving?

We spent Thanksgiving cleaning out hubby's shed and splitting wood.
The weather was windy, but nice enough that we pulled off a cook out before the sun went down!

I have plans to cook out Turkey this weekend - the weekend after Thanksgiving. . . HOWEVER, the weather is suppose to be even nicer this weekend. I am feeling the urge to cook out again! I've got plenty of marshmallows... I like mine golden brown! Gotta LOVE Florida in the winter!

 

[Debbi]

FINALLY!!! Olivia and someone else started laying again! I was starting to think I would never get another Marans egg! I know one is Olivia's, the other one could be my Splash girl's and if it is, I am tickled that it is so much darker than what she laid this past summer! Hi there Lisa, long time, no see!

Silkies are laying still, like the little troopers they are!

 

[Debbi]

We spent Thanksgiving cleaning out hubby's shed and splitting wood.
The weather was windy, but nice enough that we pulled off a cook out before the sun went down!

I have plans to cook out Turkey this weekend - the weekend after Thanksgiving. . . HOWEVER, the weather is suppose to be even nicer this weekend. I am feeling the urge to cook out again! I've got plenty of marshmallows... I like mine golden brown! Gotta LOVE Florida in the winter!

Oh, please don't start bragging on your Florida winters! It hasn't even gotten really cold here yet, 20* has been the lowest, and I'm already wishing for spring!

 

[math ace]

I am a complete novice to breeding chickens, so may I ask what test mating involves and why you do it? I am guessing to see what the offspring of a particular pair would be but just want to be sure that is correct.

WOW, that was WIERD! It took three times to get this quote to show up correctly on my screen!

TEST MATING... I do test mating with marans that I hatch from others that I suspect might be carrying the recessive yellow leg gene. I mate the suspected marans bird to a yellow legged delaware. A percentage of the chicks from this mating will have yellow legs if the marans is hiding the yellow leg gene.

The chicks that are produced from the test mating are barnyard mixes. Their only purpose is to show what is hiding in a adult bird's genotype before I use that bird in my selective pairing breeding pens.

 

[Wynette]

The melanizers may cover it up in the hens, but why not the males? If mahogany is a sign of melanization, well I've got it. But both the boys also have white feathers in their wings. Now their wing feathers grow in black, but the turn white in the middle of the feather, like the color just drained out of them. I have watched Clyde's under hackle coloring, and I will say it changes color! One month it will be white coming out of the skin, yet if I check again a few weeks later, it is gray! Could this whole white issue be a male hormone thing??

There are so many things that are sex linked, I would think this could be, as well! I'm sure that's entirely possible!

Wynette, this is exactly what I am seeing with my German New Hampshires. White at the base of the tail and getting more so. Out of 8 cockerels I raised, only 2 so far have no white. They are 8 months old. Some have just one feather that has a bit of white at the base, you don't even see it unless you go digging around in the tail feathers. I had a big discussion with the breeder about this problem last night. I hope we get it sorted out. And I am really hoping that my best one does NOT develop white

I have 2 Black Copper Marans cockerels left after culling all the rest and am also watching them like a hawk.

Oh goodness...so, here is another example of the issue in another breed. Maybe, maybe we're wrong in thinking it's an "issue" - maybe it's just that some birds have it and some don't, and there's nothing more to it. Grrr!! So frustrating!

 

[fowlman01]

Don, MOAC is not the organization that wrote the SOP - that's a completely different organization. It's MCCUSA (Marans Chicken Club USA - www.marans.org) that was the organization who go them introduced into the APA (for clarification purposes).

Also, the judge who judged them in Columbus was the same judge that was pushing to NOT have them accepted last year - if the white feathers are a DQ, wouldn't he have jumped on that bandwagon & DQ'd as many as he could? This is why it's all so confusing to me. I'm NOT arguing with you, Don, I'm trying to get to the bottom of the whole white feather issue. Here are my questions:

1. Are white tail feathers and white wing feathers acceptable in Black Copper variety? DQ, fault, neither? (Walt?)

2. Am I being overly critical? Should we be worried about this? As indicated earlier, I saw SEVERAL black-based (but with color, like the Black Copper) breeds other than Marans that seemed to have the same issue (NONE were DQ'd). Maybe it's just a "thing" with black based varieties? (Walt?)

3. Genetically - are the white fail & wing feathers related to the white underhackle? I have not seen one without the other. Barb has e-mailed a genetics expert overseas - I'll be anxiously awaiting the reply there. I also know that Roger Woo, also a genetics expert, has been researchign this and said he'd get back with me. Any other genetics folks out there wish to respond? That'd be great, if so!! (genetics folks)

Don was correct with the info he posted. The Directors thought that the white is covered by "foreign color" a DQ. As our committee got further into this it became evident that it is not explained clearly in the SOP and in reality the SOP only addresses this issue with Black birds. (as a DQ). When you read the BC Marans or the Wheaten Marans Standards, they do not address the white in the wings and tails, nor is it addressed in the SOP in any breed or variety except black. Our Committee is working on this and the initial thought is that we need clarify the Standard description of white in wings and tails of all colors. This is still in discussion, but my opinion is that it should be a severe fault at least and a DQ in some varieties. Because it is not clear, this is a discussion that the SOP Committee has wrestled with for a few months now. It appears to be only a fault at this time as I can't find a place that clearly says it is a DQ. This is why you see birds being placed with this problem.
WC Polish as an example many times have white wing tips but are not DQ'd.

Everyone should be worried about white showing up where it should not be and I'm not sure the genetic experts will have a clear answer on this, as I know that white can appear because of non genetic reasons on occasion. White at the base of the tail and in the wing tips of.......generally males......is the kiss of death in a show even though the problem is not clearly explained in the SOP. This is another reason not to breed from a young bird...they don't always show this white until they are older.

Don has struggled with this problem for quite some time and I believe he knows how to eliminate it. This is what everyone should be doing as we work through this with our committee. The APA Standard Committee is in the Revision mode at the moment, so this is the time we can clean up some of these inconsistent problems that have not been addressed or even noticed during the last 30 years or so.

Walt

 

[BarnGoddess01]

Quote:
Thank you, Walt!! I truly hope that ALL of us can get to the bottom of this "white" issue and hopefully move onward and upward from there. I'm doing my part with the genetics folks all over the world. Will let you know what I find out.

Don, if you have advice beyond, "don't use a bird with white feathers", including how to FIND a bird without white feathers, I'd LOVE to hear it!

 

[math ace]

I am still having a lot of picking problems with my Marans. . . . My basic question is, and please be honest, do others notice picking issues with this breed? I am wondering if it is just my bloodline that is the problem.

I have never had a problem with my marans girls. My hatches tend to be rooster heavy. I can have some issues with the males being nasty to each other when they hit the "JERK" age ( 12 to 20 weeks). Even at that, there has never been blood shed....

 

[snowbird]

Thank you, Walt!! I truly hope that ALL of us can get to the bottom of this "white" issue and hopefully move onward and upward from there. I'm doing my part with the genetics folks all over the world. Will let you know what I find out.

Don, if you have advice beyond, "don't use a bird with white feathers", including how to FIND a bird without white feathers, I'd LOVE to hear it!

Barb, Later tonight or tomorrow will post again how to breed the Marans without white in tail, Wings and tail coverts also. Also the under color white in hackle. I have posted this several times before wit no interest at all.

Why would you say something besides do not use the marans with white feathers ? Part of eliminating any fault is cull them out of your flock. If you breed the Marans with white I guarantee you will have all kinds of white in the young. Breeding chickens is sure not Rocket science, go into it with an open mind. Most seem to think you have to do thing different with Marans and that is just not true.

There will probably not be very many to put the effort into breeding a SOP type Marans.

Barb and Wynette , last year I raised over three hundred BC young males with maybe around 25-30 with white.

Walt, I just do not see why the APA would water down the SOP because Marans folks do not want to spend time working on making the Marans better.

Lately I have been totally disgusted with the way Marans folks act. Someone will post wanting to know what the type of their Marans and then will act like a little child when someone tell them the truth about the Marans they are so in love with. The way I look at it is if you post a picture of your fowl then you should be agreeable to a critique.

Going on break

 

[snowbird]

Don, I'd be interested to know why it seems that only the males, for the most part, are affected by the white feathers? I have 5 BCM hens, none of which have one white feather, nor gray or white underfluff. That said, only one of them shows any copper, and her's is very minimal. One is a sister to Clyde and Roy, and two are Clyde daughters. I have yet to hatch a Clyde son from these hens, and I will be curious to see what color their undercoat will be, and if there are any white feathers, come springtime when I start up hatching again. I seem to have gotten rid of my comb problems, knock wood, size and type is good, eye color good except for two that could be lighter, and shank/toe feathering has vastly improved. So this year, it is onto the color problems here! I need COLOR!!! Just not white...

Debbi, That is just on BC as the wheaten females will also have white in wing and tail. My BC males with the White were Presley bred and the Jeanne line. It is just easier to cull all this out rather than worry our heads off why is it happening. Some say they are looking to the Genetics experts. They know no more about this than the man in the moon. The people that have never had Marans have no idea of what is going on with them.