Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[KsKingBee]

Do let us know when you get to the lab and see what they find .

I don't have an answer on the FF .

OK. We spoke to the Ks. State College of Vet Medicine, Dr. Daniel Shaw at the University of Missouri who specializes in poultry, and the Poultry Disease and Research Center at the University of Georgia.

General conciseness was.... they don't know. But it MAY be, a type of Mareks called transient paralysis, OR a type of botulism, OR toxicity from medicated feed, OR just a vitamin deficiency. Dr. Daniel Shaw thought that perhaps the fermentation process in the fermented feed may be killing the vitamins, vitamin E in particular. IF the affected birds were pigging out on the FF and not eating enough of the crumbles they may be developing a vitamin deficiency. His belief is that the companies that make prepared chicken food include what the birds need and anything else that you may feed will reduce their needed requirements. Like if you feed 18% layer and also give them 9% scratch, then the scratch reduces the overall protein percentage intake of the birds.

Bottom line is that we need to take one of the sick birds to a vet, kill it and do a necropsy and have tissue samples sent to the Poultry Disease and Research Center at the University of Georgia.

Personally, I feel that Dr. Shaw's thoughts on feed is spot on. He was very gracious and spent a good deal of time talking to us about our problem.

 

[DMRippy]

Quote: I hope you get some answers.

I have ALWAYS advocated FEED only. I only use scratch to get them to do what I want. Hahaha. The fodder would only be a supplement and not their diet. I am sure it would be better than scratch. Mine don't get to free range AT ALL so I think it would be good for them.

Was the fodder on this thread????

 

[math ace]

Bottom line is that we need to take one of the sick birds to a vet, kill it and do a necropsy and have tissue samples sent to the Poultry Disease and Research Center at the University of Georgia.

OR... STOP feeding the FF on the next batch of chicks and see if you continue to have a problem.
I say this because the whole kill it, necropsy, and tissue samples will KILL your pocketbook and may still not provide you the answers you are searching for.

I had a nasty case of Fowl Pox in one of my pens a few years ago. I took a bird to the vet and $300 later I left with a "Maybe" diagnosis and enough antibiotics for ONE bird... NOT the whole pen of birds... ONE bird. I was given the same advice.. let's kill one of the sickies and send it off for examination... The sticker price almost killed me!

 

[TulsaChick]

OK.  We spoke to the Ks. State College of Vet Medicine, Dr. Daniel Shaw at the University of Missouri who specializes in poultry, and the Poultry Disease and Research Center at the University of Georgia.

General conciseness was.... they don't know.  But it MAY be, a type of Mareks called transient paralysis, OR a type of botulism, OR toxicity from medicated feed, OR just a vitamin deficiency.  Dr. Daniel Shaw thought that perhaps the fermentation process in the fermented feed may be killing the vitamins, vitamin E in particular.  IF the affected birds were pigging out on the FF and not eating enough of the crumbles they may be developing a vitamin deficiency.  His belief is that the companies that make prepared chicken food include what the birds need and anything else that you may feed will reduce their needed requirements.  Like if you feed 18% layer and also give them 9% scratch, then the scratch reduces the overall protein percentage intake of the birds.

Bottom line is that we need to take one of the sick birds to a vet, kill it and do a necropsy and have tissue samples sent to the Poultry Disease and Research Center at the University of Georgia.

Personally, I feel that Dr. Shaw's thoughts on feed is spot on.  He was very gracious and spent a good deal of time talking to us about our problem.

I was always told feed only. That their system wasn't ready yet to process other foods. I would only give chick starter

 

[maryhysong]

I was always told feed only. That their system wasn't ready yet to process other foods. I would only give chick starter

I have been feeding FF for over a year now, from hatch to lay and not a single problem. Also if you think about it botulism requires an airless environment. If you are stirring the FF daily and have a good ferment going on, you are not going to grow botulism. I would be more inclined towards the Merecks or a vitamin deficiency.

If you think about broody hens hatching chicks in a hidden nest those chicks may never eat chick starter; they are eating what mamma finds for them; grass, bugs, worms, ect. I have never hesitated to give my young chicks finely chopped greens, worms, ect. They do have some grit with it tho.

 

[chrissyr]

OK. We spoke to the Ks. State College of Vet Medicine, Dr. Daniel Shaw at the University of Missouri who specializes in poultry, and the Poultry Disease and Research Center at the University of Georgia.

General conciseness was.... they don't know. But it MAY be, a type of Mareks called transient paralysis, OR a type of botulism, OR toxicity from medicated feed, OR just a vitamin deficiency. Dr. Daniel Shaw thought that perhaps the fermentation process in the fermented feed may be killing the vitamins, vitamin E in particular. IF the affected birds were pigging out on the FF and not eating enough of the crumbles they may be developing a vitamin deficiency. His belief is that the companies that make prepared chicken food include what the birds need and anything else that you may feed will reduce their needed requirements. Like if you feed 18% layer and also give them 9% scratch, then the scratch reduces the overall protein percentage intake of the birds.

Bottom line is that we need to take one of the sick birds to a vet, kill it and do a necropsy and have tissue samples sent to the Poultry Disease and Research Center at the University of Georgia.

Personally, I feel that Dr. Shaw's thoughts on feed is spot on. He was very gracious and spent a good deal of time talking to us about our problem.

Did the Dr say anything about worming? I kind of thought the worming at that age could have been the problem. And even the smallest Ivermectin can cause seizures and death in herding breed dogs. So that kind of caused me to pause.
I hope you find out what's doing this. Its very difficult to go through stuff like this, especially when you don't know what's caused it.

 

[KsKingBee]

OR... STOP feeding the FF on the next batch of chicks and see if you continue to have a problem.

Yes, I forgot to mention that we have decided to forgo the FF on all the young birds. DW is very careful to do the fermentation right but we have decided to raise the last batch for the year without any FF and see if that stops the problem. The three week olds will be going out to the brooder next week, so no more FF for them! And the seven week olds in the brooder wont get any more until they get moved into general population.

Thanks to everyone for all your concerns! We will let you know if we decide to send one off to the lab, we will check the price first. Then again the way this one here on the living room floor looks we may not have to kill one for the test.

 

[DMRippy]

Quote:
If it was me I would not worm them anymore either. I have never had a need to worm chicks. I have only occasionally wormed adults. I do worm new birds. I have just not seen a need to regularly worm birds.

 

[ChickensAreSweet]

Quote: Did you see the link I posted earlier in the thread for you- here it is again if you didn't see it:
http://www.thepoultrysite.com/publications/6/diseases-of-poultry/218/vitamin-e-deficiency

 

[KsKingBee]

Did the Dr say anything about worming? I kind of thought the worming at that age could have been the problem. And even the smallest Ivermectin can cause seizures and death in herding breed dogs. So that kind of caused me to pause.
I hope you find out what's doing this. Its very difficult to go through stuff like this, especially when you don't know what's caused it.

We did not discuss the worming, it didn't cross my mind and he did not ask. However I will say that the first bird to come down with it was before we wormed.

Thank you, it is especially frustrating when you can not find out what to do in a situation, very helpless indeed.