Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!
- Thread starter Wynette
- Start date
- Oct 29, 2009
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Quote:
Hi Cook!
Let me guess that little hole seems like it just wasn't really developed at all, huh? You know how an ember or match will burn a nice hole right through polyester or something like that, does the hole sort of resemble that but looks like what melted dropped through the hole to almost land on the membrane of the egg? Did any of that make sense?
I have got eggs like that.
I posted this article once before in another thread hoping that it would be discussed and thought that it had merit. Maybe this time.
Borrowed from Wikipedia.
"The default color of vertebrate eggs is the white of the calcium carbonate from which the shells are made, but some birds, mainly passerines, produce colored eggs. The pigments biliverdin and its zinc chelate give a green or blue ground color, and protoporphyrin produces reds and browns as a ground color or as spotting.
Non-passerines typically have white eggs, except in some ground-nesting groups such as the Charadriiformes, sandgrouse and nightjars, where camouflage is necessary, and some parasitic cuckoos which have to match the passerine host's egg. Most passerines, in contrast, lay colored eggs, even if there is no need of cryptic colors.
However, a recent study suggests that the protoporphyrin markings on passerine eggs actually act to reduce brittleness by acting as a solid state lubricant. If there is insufficient calcium available in the local soil, the egg shell may be thin, especially in a circle around the broad end. Protoporphyrin speckling compensates for this, and increases inversely to the amount of calcium in the soil.
For the same reason, later eggs in a clutch are more spotted than early ones as the female's store of calcium is depleted.
The color of individual eggs is also genetically influenced, and appears to be inherited through the mother only, suggesting that the gene responsible for pigmentation is on the sex determining W chromosome (female birds are WZ, males ZZ).
It used to be thought that color was applied to the shell immediately before laying, but this research shows that coloration is an integral part of the development of the shell, with the same protein responsible for depositing calcium carbonate, or protoporphyrins when there is a lack of that mineral.
In species such as the Common Guillemot, which nest in large groups, each female's eggs have very different markings, making it easier for females to identify their own eggs on the crowded cliff ledges on which they breed."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_(biolog
Thank you Pinchick.
I knew there's got to be an explanation for this phenomena, in this case scientifically. The hole looks very conformal and somewhat indicate an egg that is not fully developed to the naked eye of an observer due to the incomplete closure of the shell. That gave me a reason to believe that it was not pecked.
Hi Cook!
Let me guess that little hole seems like it just wasn't really developed at all, huh? You know how an ember or match will burn a nice hole right through polyester or something like that, does the hole sort of resemble that but looks like what melted dropped through the hole to almost land on the membrane of the egg? Did any of that make sense?
I have got eggs like that.
I posted this article once before in another thread hoping that it would be discussed and thought that it had merit. Maybe this time.
Borrowed from Wikipedia.
"The default color of vertebrate eggs is the white of the calcium carbonate from which the shells are made, but some birds, mainly passerines, produce colored eggs. The pigments biliverdin and its zinc chelate give a green or blue ground color, and protoporphyrin produces reds and browns as a ground color or as spotting.
Non-passerines typically have white eggs, except in some ground-nesting groups such as the Charadriiformes, sandgrouse and nightjars, where camouflage is necessary, and some parasitic cuckoos which have to match the passerine host's egg. Most passerines, in contrast, lay colored eggs, even if there is no need of cryptic colors.
However, a recent study suggests that the protoporphyrin markings on passerine eggs actually act to reduce brittleness by acting as a solid state lubricant. If there is insufficient calcium available in the local soil, the egg shell may be thin, especially in a circle around the broad end. Protoporphyrin speckling compensates for this, and increases inversely to the amount of calcium in the soil.
For the same reason, later eggs in a clutch are more spotted than early ones as the female's store of calcium is depleted.
The color of individual eggs is also genetically influenced, and appears to be inherited through the mother only, suggesting that the gene responsible for pigmentation is on the sex determining W chromosome (female birds are WZ, males ZZ).
It used to be thought that color was applied to the shell immediately before laying, but this research shows that coloration is an integral part of the development of the shell, with the same protein responsible for depositing calcium carbonate, or protoporphyrins when there is a lack of that mineral.
In species such as the Common Guillemot, which nest in large groups, each female's eggs have very different markings, making it easier for females to identify their own eggs on the crowded cliff ledges on which they breed."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_(biolog
Thank you Pinchick.
I knew there's got to be an explanation for this phenomena, in this case scientifically. The hole looks very conformal and somewhat indicate an egg that is not fully developed to the naked eye of an observer due to the incomplete closure of the shell. That gave me a reason to believe that it was not pecked.
Your Welcome Cook. Don't know if it is the answer or not, just always thought that article was very interesting.
Debbi~
2 of Bills dtrs eggs have pipped and one egg out of the breeding pen had pipped. We have a huge power outage yesterday that started at 1pm until 3am this morning. I have been very busy keeping babies warm and bators warm. 9 babies hatched during the outage. I have 8 pips still, haven't seen any other movement in the rest of the eggs. I suspect that the outage may have done some of them in.
fdnick~
I don't raise Wheatens but have had the chance to work with them. He is a nice bird. I like his type and tail set. He is still young and I think he may fill out even more and very nicely at that.
Wheaten fluff/underfluff/under carriage is not true black........it should be more of a blackish/dark taupeyish/lightly burnished brown glints. (if that makes sense
)
Debbi~
2 of Bills dtrs eggs have pipped and one egg out of the breeding pen had pipped. We have a huge power outage yesterday that started at 1pm until 3am this morning. I have been very busy keeping babies warm and bators warm. 9 babies hatched during the outage. I have 8 pips still, haven't seen any other movement in the rest of the eggs. I suspect that the outage may have done some of them in.
fdnick~
I don't raise Wheatens but have had the chance to work with them. He is a nice bird. I like his type and tail set. He is still young and I think he may fill out even more and very nicely at that.
Wheaten fluff/underfluff/under carriage is not true black........it should be more of a blackish/dark taupeyish/lightly burnished brown glints. (if that makes sense
Quote:
Mornin' Pink! Darn it! I'm always afraid of power outages when incubating! At least you got 9, are the other pips progressing?? You must be exhausted by now, not to mention stressed out!
Don't give up on the others just yet. With the temp drop, they probably just may hatch slower? Hopefully anyway! Keep us posted!
As for the fluff on the Wheatons, according to what is posted in the "variety color standard" on the MCCUsa site, it calls for "black". I know that color you are describing, sounds like a sunburned black Angus cow, black with a reddish haze.
Mornin' Pink! Darn it! I'm always afraid of power outages when incubating! At least you got 9, are the other pips progressing?? You must be exhausted by now, not to mention stressed out!
As for the fluff on the Wheatons, according to what is posted in the "variety color standard" on the MCCUsa site, it calls for "black". I know that color you are describing, sounds like a sunburned black Angus cow, black with a reddish haze.
Last edited:
Thanks Debbi!
In order to save time I copied this from the Delaware thread where I must check in with Mamma Kathyinmo
, this is how it played out and current stats.
This was the scenario:
Power went out.
Put hatched babies in the big incubator from brooder.
Filled as many water bottles as I could with the hottest water I could get and put bottles in bators.
Wrapped all bators in blankets and towels, being sure not to cover air exchange holes.
Freaked out because it was very chilly in the house. (DH built a nice toasty fire)
Put huge pot of water on woodstove for continued supply of hot water.
Refilled hot water bottles as often as needed if temp in bators dropped below 90.The lowest they dropped was to about 84, THANK GOODNESS.
I think the last time I filled and replaced water bottles was about 130 then I decided I just couldn't take it anymore, sought out the couch and hit it til power came back on and scared the you know what out of me.
During the outage we had 9 babies hatch. The current count of Delawares is at 8 beautiful little healthy and very friendly fuzzy butts. Every one of them broke out of their shells nice and clean, feet & legs are perfect.
1 Welsummer, 2 olive eggers. 4 more Dellies have pipped and still working on zip. Haven't seen any movement in the rest of the Del eggs. (edited for the Marans thread......3 Marans have pipped as of now....
)
The day is young and hopefully we don't have another power outage. Raining and windy like crazy here.
About the Wheatens thing......I know.... but it just seems silly to me that they refer to it as black when it really isn't a true black. I can just see where that would/could be very confusing for newcomers.
In order to save time I copied this from the Delaware thread where I must check in with Mamma Kathyinmo
This was the scenario:
Power went out.
Put hatched babies in the big incubator from brooder.
Filled as many water bottles as I could with the hottest water I could get and put bottles in bators.
Wrapped all bators in blankets and towels, being sure not to cover air exchange holes.
Freaked out because it was very chilly in the house. (DH built a nice toasty fire)
Put huge pot of water on woodstove for continued supply of hot water.
Refilled hot water bottles as often as needed if temp in bators dropped below 90.The lowest they dropped was to about 84, THANK GOODNESS.
I think the last time I filled and replaced water bottles was about 130 then I decided I just couldn't take it anymore, sought out the couch and hit it til power came back on and scared the you know what out of me.
During the outage we had 9 babies hatch. The current count of Delawares is at 8 beautiful little healthy and very friendly fuzzy butts. Every one of them broke out of their shells nice and clean, feet & legs are perfect.
1 Welsummer, 2 olive eggers. 4 more Dellies have pipped and still working on zip. Haven't seen any movement in the rest of the Del eggs. (edited for the Marans thread......3 Marans have pipped as of now....
The day is young and hopefully we don't have another power outage. Raining and windy like crazy here.
About the Wheatens thing......I know.... but it just seems silly to me that they refer to it as black when it really isn't a true black. I can just see where that would/could be very confusing for newcomers.
Last edited:
Wow! What a night for you! Makes me think I need to stock up on hot water bottles, and some more canning jars! Wish I had a wood stove here, my insurance company would drop me like a hot rock! I have a wood furnace, but if the power goes out, no blower, so no heat. Been toying with the idea of getting a generator. Got enough Coleman stoves to cook on and to heat water, so no problem there. We still have not gotten anything in the way of rain, just some wind, same for today. We haven't had any moisture for weeks here, so now we are looking at fire danger. I sure hope you don't lose your power again!!
I agree with the term black in the Wheaton standard being confusing, especially, when they say a Wheaton should be colored just like a BCM except for the wing triangle. Same goes for the Blue Coppers. Should have the copper color in the hackles as the BCM, but when dealing with dilution, I think there should be an allowance for the lighter coloring to some extent. Bev had made the same comment when I brought it up before, so I wonder if that will be mentioned in there? (SOP)
Quote:
Exactly!
You know that reminds me Debbi (thanks
), a while back I posted this and flgarden and I were hoping for a response but as you know things here can get missed, so I'll repost it with high hopes:
Question~
I know this is very premature but here goes.
Blue
As we know blue can and does express itself in different shades, my question, how will this be broached in the standards or proposed standards? Will there be a certain hue of blue that is proposed/sought? Or will all the shades of blue be acceptable?
Last edited by pinkchick (10/12/2010 3:26 pm)
Exactly!
You know that reminds me Debbi (thanks
Question~
I know this is very premature but here goes.
Blue
As we know blue can and does express itself in different shades, my question, how will this be broached in the standards or proposed standards? Will there be a certain hue of blue that is proposed/sought? Or will all the shades of blue be acceptable?
Last edited by pinkchick (10/12/2010 3:26 pm)
Quote:
Skin the roosters instead of plucking them.
That's what we do!
Skin the roosters instead of plucking them.
That's what we do!
Quote:
Exactly!
You know that reminds me Debbi (thanks
), a while back I posted this and flgarden and I were hoping for a response but as you know things here can get missed, so I'll repost it with high hopes:
Question~
I know this is very premature but here goes.
Blue
As we know blue can and does express itself in different shades, my question, how will this be broached in the standards or proposed standards? Will there be a certain hue of blue that is proposed/sought? Or will all the shades of blue be acceptable?
Last edited by pinkchick (10/12/2010 3:26 pm)
I sure would hope it would allow for all of the differences! I like the different shades, and from what I've seen, there is a large range. Now I'd want to know if they are going to prefer the lacing and also allow blues with little to no lacing? I guess the Blues are still far off when it comes to an SOP, but now would be the time for input. Maybe by that time I will actually HAVE some blues???
Exactly!
You know that reminds me Debbi (thanks
Question~
I know this is very premature but here goes.
Blue
As we know blue can and does express itself in different shades, my question, how will this be broached in the standards or proposed standards? Will there be a certain hue of blue that is proposed/sought? Or will all the shades of blue be acceptable?
Last edited by pinkchick (10/12/2010 3:26 pm)
I sure would hope it would allow for all of the differences! I like the different shades, and from what I've seen, there is a large range. Now I'd want to know if they are going to prefer the lacing and also allow blues with little to no lacing? I guess the Blues are still far off when it comes to an SOP, but now would be the time for input. Maybe by that time I will actually HAVE some blues???
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